Do the Witnesses "manipulate" recruits?

by refiners fire 38 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  lv4fer

  Alot of their publications will quote from various sources and you think wow they've really done their homework. I know I made the mistake of not looking up the info myself and checking their sources. Of course their sources tend to be biased because they are trying to prove their point. You may find one source that says they think Jesus died on a stake and they will quote that one source, even taking it out of context to prove their point whereas you will find 10 that don't back up their line of thought. My mistake and the mistake of others (perhaps) is that we don't do our own research, we take their word for it and they suck us in.

  "The reward for conformity was that everyone liked you except yourself."

  Rita Mae Brown
• 

  hillary_step

  Hello,

  One of the most telling 'manipulative' actions that occurs to an embryonic JW is the changing attitude towards those seeking knowledge.

  The unbaptized Bible student is *encouraged* to aks questions which are generally enthusiastically answered ( unless of course they are outside of the script). The person asking questions is described to others with a proud fervour as 'someone thirsting for knowledge'.

  The moment a person is baptised and then continues asking questions, they are then viewed as 'weakening' in faith. This is often the entrance to a path of misery for many, who then have to learn to subjugate the very essence that elevates the spirit of man; curiosity and creativity.

  As one old-time Missionary once said to me, 'People are useless to Jehovah until their spirit is broken - then he can use them'. As always substitute the word 'Organisation' for 'Jehovah' and you get the point.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  Valis

  I think JWs take on a significant emotional investment when they study w/someone, especially the longer the study goes on, which usually leads to taking them to the hall, doing things for them, etc. This, in my opinion, is the hook. A couple of things will happen. The person will abuse the "privilidge" and will discontinue the study. Naturally this gives the JW hours of discussion topic. Another twist of fate may be that the person becomes a member of the borg and falls into their particular caste among the JWs. I definitely think JWs manipulate people, and indeed expect them to become JWs, for "befriending" them.

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  refiners fire

  I apologize for the sarcasm to RF.

  Ah so it was sarcasm then. Very Well, here is what happened.
  At the end of your first post you put:
  "Edited because I am a dufuss".
  As soon as I saw that I decided that I would try to show you how clever you were by telling you how excellent your story was.
  I was trying to big note you, not myself.
• 

  jerome

  Keep this thread alive!

  If info like this ever gets out into the general public the JWs are done for.

  This brings to mind a quote from the movie Witnesses of Jehovah:

  They have lied to us, they have decieved us and we have the documented evidence to prove it.

  I personally am beginning to implement an innoculation programme against the Watchtower.

  Those people need to be stopped. And i'm going to put myself on their list of do not calls it they get to close to me.

  Amazing said that he knows of cases where studies have been shunned as apostates because they ask too many questions.

  I am such a one. I was studying with a girl at school when I went on the internet and got some info about them and asked them about it. Then one day the girl that was studying with me just said good bye and hasent spoken to me sinse.

  I see her every day at school and she looks away everytime she sees me coming and has absolutely nothing to do with me.

  This religion is sick and it has to be stopped.

  I shure as hell am going to do my part to warn people about them before they get hooked.

  Do they minapulate people.

  Hell yes.

  They have lied to me to my face and one of them has shunned me.

  If people get their hands on a fraction of the information that I have before they get caught, Watchtower aint getting no more new converts from about here.

  Just doing my part.

  jerome
• 

  waiting

  Does a bear shit in the woods? - slip

  Is the Pope a hypocrite?
  Is the Pope a bigot?
  Is a politician crooked?

  Absolutely yes. One easy way to see the manipulation is that when a jw leaves "the safety of the fold" ie: stops attending meetings - "they lose their spirituality and fall into the snare of the Devil."

  In other words, without constant "upbuilding" going to meetings & service, one's faith doesn't survive. If it takes that little to deter the jw faith.....one could speculate that it's not that ingrained. Only the indoctrination is that ingrained. Big difference. Btw, this doesn't happen to every jw - but happens often enough that the WT continually warns of the danger of "missing meetings." Remember? Part of our "Complete Shield of Faith."

  We read about the survivors of concentration camps, etc. undergoing horrors (and they did) - but other psychological factors were going on also. Any group with a strong identity seemed to do well in enduring - such as the gypsies. A study was done on homosexuals and JW's & what kind of treatment they received - pretty decent compared to what the gypsies & jews received.

  JW's seem to be strong when in - but leave home? Many never come back.

  waiting
• 

  Lady Lee

  The title asks one question and I believe the answer is "Yes most definitely" for all the reasons everyone has posted. but rf asked another question in the first post

  ------
  Do they "mystically manipulate"people joining them?
  ------

  This is a different question. For the type of manipulation to be mystical there has to be the added component of God or spirituality added to the manipulation. Do the JWs do this?

  Lifton defines Mystical Manipulation as
  2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION (Planned spontaneity)

  extensive personal manipulation

  seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated

  totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative

  the "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment)

  the individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others

  the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than
  an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members

  the leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the "outside world"

  So does the org use these techniques?

  extensive personal manipulation
  hmmm - they don't tell their prospective members the whole truth about what they are getting into. In fact they don't even tell their active members the whole truth. How many of us learned more about the org after we left than all the years we were in?

  seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative
  Talks on encouraging and welcoming new ones to meetings come to mind while the new ones are kept in the dark and told this "love" is proof of God's direction and this being the truth

  the "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment)
  Claim they are the only path to God and use scriptures out of context to prove their points with a very artificial and contructed home bible study

  the individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others
  Individuals are strongly and systematically pushed towards witnessing to others - and all negative response is taken as proof of doing God's will and therefore a form of persecution

  the leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members
  An earthly leadership based in New York is seen as the God's mediator instead of an invisible Christ

  legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the "outside world"
  aka Theocratic war strategy

  Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
  Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
  Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
  Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002
• 

  Marilyn

  A thoroughly enjoyable subject. Waitings comments re meeting attendance was interesting coz in reality the meetings are a dead bore. It must be the ritual or routine that they are trying to establish with you.

  Hillary_step's comment about the study that is "thirsting for knowledge" was good. I think it's a fairly new problem for them to differentiate between someone 'thirsting for knowledge' and someone who has been there done that and KNOWS TOO MUCH.

  I don't think anyone has mentioned this aspect. There is manipulation at the initial stages via this practice: If someone puts forward a well considered objection stating the way they feel about an issue, the witness states their opinion with a bunch of vaguely related scriptures. The person might not be convinced and will continue to stand their ground. The witness will more or less repeat their stand, swopping the words around a bit but it's basically the same answer. The person might continue to hold to their view. But during this process, which often goes on for several weeks or months, the person becomes familiar with the Witness view. They become more comfortable with it and recognise it easily after a while. At some point they seem to adopt it as their own even though initially the explanation was not acceptable to the recruit.

  I heard this from someone making an academic study of how JWs recruit. He was having a study and had observed this procedure.

  marilyn
• 

  refiners fire

  If someone puts forward a well considered objection stating the way they feel about an issue, the witness states their opinion .. The person might not be convinced and will continue to stand their ground. The witness will more or less repeat their stand,.... The person might continue to hold to their view. But during this process, which often goes on for several weeks or months, the person becomes familiar with the Witness view. They become more comfortable with it.

  I guess anyone whos read Liftons "thought reform" will recognize this.
  A dozen people in a meeting, all holding the same basic view but with their own personal interpretation of that view, versus 1 dissident.
  The dissident shifts and shifts and modifies his view, over time, until he finds himself in an "orthodox" position.

  The Witnesses, of course,( and the Chinese Communist "thought reformers") CANT alter their basic position, so that means the inductee has to be flexible....or else....study over.