Are Western values compatible with Christian values?

by garyneal 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  garyneal

  I was going to say Judaism, Christianity, and Islam but since I know little of Judaism and Islam so I decided to stick primarily with Christianity. I have found myself thinking that the values preached in the Bible are not compatible with Western (ie American) values. However, it all seems to depend on who you really talk to and what he or she believes.

  For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses preach a lot about how women are suppose to be submissive to men and yet at the same time preach how this does not mean that women are suppose to be seen as inferior to men. Churches do this too with many of the Bible teachings. They either gloss over the bad teachings or avoid them altogether. There's the God who will order the genocide and the killing of men, women, and children and the God who despises murder. Depending on what church you go to, you either protest gays and lesbians and tell them that God hates them or say that God loves everyone and everyone is imperfect.

  Really, the Bible can pretty much say, anything you want it to say.

  So what do you all think, are the values being taught by religion compatible with Western values? If so, please explain why and if not, please explain why.
• 

  talesin

  Hi, Gary.

  I can sum up the answer in one sentence, and it is the negative response: no.

  Western values are based on capitalism ... Jesus was a socialist.

  ... he made water into wine .. he fed thousands with a few loaves and fishes ... he said it would be 'harder for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man get into heaven' (or whatever, the EXACT quote is from the reader's chosen faulty edition of the Babble) ... do unto others ... I could go on ad nauseum.

  So, that's my thoughts about western values vs Christian - they both have the same agenda at the moment, and I don't like it - not one bit ... they are the same. *shrugs*

  But they are not what JC taught.

  t
• 

  talesin

  Oh, and my favorite image when I picture Jesus as an activist ...

  He THREW the money-changers OUT of the Temple!

  What does OUR society do with those scum ??? Oh, we give them $7 Trillion dollars!
• 

  garyneal

  talesin,

  Excellent, yes it does seem like Western values and Christian values (particularly those espoused by the Christian right) do go against what Christ taught. I find this quote from Ghandi suitable to your statements.

  "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
• 

  talesin

  I like that expression, too, Gary.
  
  It seems that corporate interests are catering to the ultra-religious (I prefer that phrase over the 'Religious Right' because, really, what does that mean? There is no 'Religious Left' .. hmm,, just a construct of the press) ...

  They are all around us. Oh-so-high and mighty 'religious' people, who will stab you in the back for your business, and condemn their next door neighbour for 'living in sin'..

  ack!

  I have good friends who are Christian .. they are lovely. Kind and caring, and not preachy. They 'live' their ideals, and for them, and those religious people like them, I have respect.

  Are these folks becoming the minority, though? Are the fanatical ones taking over? hmmm ... it's certainly food for thought, and discussion.

  t
• 

  Theocratic Sedition

  Talesin

  On capitalism and its partner in crime, imperialism especially, of course not. Considering the Israelites subjugation of other peoples, maybe this country got the Judeo part right. Heck, they got Christian principles as defined by Constantine right too. As far as Jesus Christ is concerned, this country's values are about as much in harmony with Christ's life as Peter right before Jesus said "get behind me Satan."
• 

  mP

  Jesus was a monster. He was pro tax and obedience and never condemned slavery and actually encouraged on multiple occassions that they be good to their masters.

  WHo needs a mentor like that ?

  Let history tell you what to be christian means. In Philemon one Christian treats his slave so bad he runs away. Paul being the good proto christian tells the runaway slave to go back instead of helping him. Jesus instead of telling the cruel masters to free their slaves, tells the slaves to basically shutup and get back to work. THe poor must also of course must remember to pay their taxes.

  Check your history books and take a look at all the western hatred and cruelty that the christianity brought to the AMericas, Africa, Europe, ASia, Australia, The Pacific and more.

  Jesus was a roman stooge.

  Christianity has never been a religion of good, its a religion based on lies, hypocracy and greed. Just ask the Muslims who have their own form of christianity. THeres little difference between islam and christianity, the major difference is the west made progress because it left christianity and its evils behind.
• 

  villagegirl

  Garyneal - Jesus said "You are neither male nor female,

  but you are all ONE in the Christ"

  I don't think anybody heard him. He also gave the Good Samaritan

  parables and the Watchtower manages to ignore that completely,

  as well as Jesus statement that women and men are all

  equal in the eyes of Christ and God And supercedes cultural norms.

  Subjection of Women was the original "curse" after the garden of Eden.

  Women being in "subjection to men" goes back to the "Curse" in Genesis

  ( first book of the Bible Hebrew scriptures ) where God says

  "FROM NOW ON, your husband will dominate you" This was

  part of the CURSE when they were thrown OUT of the garden of Eden.

  Then in the "New Testament" (or scriptures written after the death and

  resurrection of Christ), it is written; "The Curse was nailed to the cross"

  which was why women became prominent in the very early Church.

  But that was stomped out by Organizations.

  Be careful of expecting the Watchtower to practice what it preaches

  being in subjection IS inferior. There are no female Ministerial Servants,

  Elders, or even ushers, and no members of the governing body,even though

  this is supposed to be a God ordained group. God ordained women to positions

  of authority in the past. Deborah was both Judge and Ruler of Isreal for 40 years

  and the Bible says when Deborah ruled there was peace and prosperity in Israel.
• 

  villagegirl

  Western Values ARE a product of the the Bible.

  Christians were Jews who believed Jesus, to be the Christ or

  promised Jewish Messiah. Christians followed the teaching of the

  Torah, in that they read the Law and valued its principles, the ten

  commandments and the principles of social justice for all in the community.

  The Torah and its principles on social responsibilty, example: liabilty as in the

  law saying you must put a parapet, a protective wall, or railing, around your

  flat rooftop, because if someone falls you are resonsible for their death by

  creating a hazard. Also laws on responsibilty to the poor, property rights,

  paying a just wage to workers, not being cruel to animals - all these are

  Weatern Values and embodied in the Torah.
• 

  tootired2care

  Garyneal interesting thread topic...

  I would say that the idea of freedom is completely incompatible with Christian values of being a slave, and being in fear of the lord.

  The bible (Jesus et all) taught that we're supposed to just wait on god to provide for us, and put up with the injustices (slavery etc..) or whatever sub-par thing exists in the present. This philosophy is not compatible with western philosophy. Western lands are places of opportunity. There are many stories of people coming from complete poverty and making it big, because they were willing to apply themselves, and work hard at a dream of bettering themselves, and most importantly reject this silly notion of waiting on god to provide -- Matt 6:33, when clearly his record stinks badly in that regard.