Apostates are blown out of the water by an elder's response to my e-mail

by never a jw 27 Replies latest jw friends

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  never a jw

  The following are two emails (one mine, one from an elder) that are part of an exchange regarding the unfairness of shunning. He is an elder and a substitute of the C.O. He comes from a "highly decorated" family of JW's. They have it all, elders, C.O., bethelite lawyers, even one black sheep who was disfellowshipped many years ago and never came back.

  My e-mail with questions below Dear Mr Elder, Sorry for the extra e-mail but I just couldn't let it go. "the problem with them is selfishness", you wrote. [this line is quoted from a previous e-mail] Apostates are "unhappy", or "not pleasant people" according to some other JW's that I personally know. The WT also hurls other hateful labels and descriptions such as. "mentally diseased", "like a dog that returns to its vomit" and many more. Question for you to ponder: Why is it that the Watchtower and JW's never defend successfully from the valid criticism of the apostates in a myriad of subjects?Most responses I hear or read from them are ad hominem attacks. Occasionally I read a defense of 607 B.C. or Creation, or the U.N. scandal, but it always falls short. Challenge for you: After April 15 I can breathe again. Would you then be able to set aside the argumentum ad hominem and direct me to, or offer me a valid argument on any of the dozens of issues that have been raised by the apostates? Have a good weekend. Never a JW HIS RESPONSE below (tell me if he is addressing my questions) Dear Never a JW,
  Well, no.
  I do not think apostates are all those things you mentioned. They're just like we all are, good in some things and bad in others.
  
  But, for the most part, their actions tell me they are not following Jesus example or teachings. For example, many of them have indeed re-adopted false doctrines. Others have stopped caring about the public in general and no longer witness about God's truths as they used to before. And as for the Christian command of meeting together, they don't.
  
  There are many reasons for which a person might stop being a Witness, and that is as it should be. Millions of people have stopped attending religious services in many different denominations, because they have had a change of heart. But the fact that it happens does not prove their former faith to be wrong.
  
  Likewise, a person who stops being a Witness has not "finally seen the light", they have simply had a change of heart, and that is as it should be. They have let themselves be convinced of another truth.
  
  We each need to decide what "truth" we will believe. Let us hope (and pray) we have found the real truth. Mr Elder I asked only 2 direct and specific questions. Did the elder ever answer those questions?? There's more quite interesting stuff in subsequent e-mails
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  Finkelstein

  Elder says ..

  But, for the most part, their actions tell me they are not following Jesus example or teachings.

  And most certainly the WTS. are not following Jesus example at all, not even close, their teachings are false and

  are subjectively corrupt for the reason of commercializing literature, has been from the very start of this organization and most likely

  will continue in this direction in the unforeseen future..
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  Brother of the Hawk

  Alot of words but answered zero questions. Typical trained monkey.
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  Finkelstein

  Elder says ...

  Likewise, a person who stops being a Witness has not "finally seen the light

  Actually there are many people who have been close to this religion and left because they did see the light.

  You can never trust a JWS for they will lie in supporting the organization which they are a part of,

  So there you have it a lying religious publishing house and a bunch mentally indoctrinated people lying in support of it.

  And whats worst is this is done pretentiously and guised in the name of Christianity.
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  sd-7

  For example, many of them have indeed re-adopted false doctrines.

  Such as? Since your people adopt a new doctrine every year it seems, which ones were true and which ones were false? Oh, right, they were just 'past truths', right?

  Others have stopped caring about the public in general and no longer witness about God's truths as they used to before.

  And how again is your ministry 'caring about the public'? You just shovel your literature at them. You don't help the poor or the sick, sometimes not even amongst your own people.

  And as for the Christian command of meeting together, they don't.

  And you would know this how? You follow them around? Or do you just assume that they must start another organization because you happened to be part of one?

  Millions of people have stopped attending religious services in many different denominations, because they have had a change of heart. But the fact that it happens does not prove their former faith to be wrong.

  Correct! In fact, it proves nothing at all about their former faith in itself, right or wrong. So your statement successfully makes no point whatsoever. What proves something about a religion is actual facts about its teachings, methods of operation and basically how they treat people. Those are the relevant issues here, not whether or not someone merely had a change of heart.

  1 John 4:1 or somewhere around there tells us to do more than just "hope" we have found the real truth, it tells us to test the inspired expressions to see whether they come from God. That involves actual effort on our part beyond mere hope.

  So yeah, this was just a continuation of an ad hominem argument. You didn't sink my Battleship.

  --sd-7
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  alecholmesthedetective

  Millions of people have stopped attending religious services in many different denominations, because they have had a change of heart. But the fact that it happens does not prove their former faith to be wrong.

  Aren't JW's the only true religion? His argument is invalid. LOL

  Others have stopped caring about the public in general and no longer witness about God's truths as they used to before.

  Yes, because the WT does so much for the general public, don't they?

  Amazing.

  Alec
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  Tylinbrando

  How are apostates blown out of the water with this email?

  Whoever this elder is, he is a tool. Apostates are just like all of us? Then why does Watchtower label them "mentally diseased"?

  Apostates don't follow Jesus example? But the JWs do? How many policies does Watchtower's Governing Body implement that have no bible basis?

  Who has adopted false doctrines? Watchtower does not corner the market on biblical doctrines or the interpretation of such. Perhaps many apostates have a clearer understanding of doctrines without the JW spin.

  Apostates don't witness? You have to be kidding me. They are more passionate and obsessed about witnessing their truths than any JW.

  JWs meet together robotically and habitually. Apostates unite in groups and via the Internet on a worldwide scale motivated by genuine passion and interest in awakening others.

  Mr Elder talks about deciding which truth to follow. He tells us much about his psyche. He knows there is more than one truth that captures interest. He is deeply worried he is following the wrong one.

  Watchtower tool.
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  Aussie Oz

  he gave you the public propaganda answer seeing as you have never been a JW...

  Oz
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  I agree with Oz, he gave you the sanitized "answer" without touching on any issues you raised. Perhaps he's not bright enough to realize that you already know the truth about WT procedures and aren't going to be tricked by his "theocratic warfare."
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  Black Sheep

  They have let themselves be convinced of another truth.
  
  We each need to decide what "truth" we will believe.

  Rubbish statements. You don't have to already have an alternative belief system in order to understand that the crap taught by the people that scammed you and your family is wrong. Understanding that you have been lied to by your church leaders is the beginning of your journey, not the end.

  Pick a subject that undermines selection as god's channel. Be specific, a short question composed in grammar that a ten year old could understand and requires an answer that is documented, not a personal opinion.