A couple of Jehovah Witness stumpers! Add some if you like

by TheNurseInBlack 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TheNurseInBlack
    TheNurseInBlack

    These are some questions that I ask the Jehovah witnesses. I hope you find them useful

    Disclaimer: These are questions I found on the iternet and from other sources of research. Only the first one is really mine.

    1)

    "If we stop actively supporting Jehovah's work, then we start following Satan. There is no middle ground." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.18
    So of course someone who is following Satan can not certainly make it to paradise
    But on the website they state
    Do You Feel That You Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?
    No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27.

    So I don't understand what they believe. Do you have to be a Jehovah witness to be saved or not?

    "But Jehovah's servants already belong to the ONLY organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things." Watchtower 2007 Dec 15 p.14

    So I don't understand what they believe. Do you have to be a Jehovah witness to be saved or not?

    Or is this just a blatant contradiction?

    2) If they are no longer a brother Therefore, could the counsel of vs 11 (quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.) be applied to him after his expulsion from the congregation? Is he not now part of the world? Would not then vs. 10 now apply to him? As he now is no longer an insider but an outsider Jesus counsel at Matt. 18:17 would apply – “If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.” Yes, he would be treated as anybody else that is not part of the congregation. Jesus ate meals and had dealings with many sinners and tax collectors.

    So we see from these Watchtower cites that the disfellowshipped person is no longer a brother and therefore the counsel of brother not taking brother to court doesn’t apply. Is it not a double standard to then apply “quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man” to a disfellowshipped person when he is no longer a brother? How can one say in 1 Corinthians chap.5 the DFed person is a “brother”, but in 1 Corinthians chap. 6 he is not a brother?

    3) In June 1991, the Watchtower denounced the Catholic Church for having 24 organizations represented at the United Nations. This was true. The Catholic Church had 24 NGOs (Non-Governmental Organizations) maintained by the Catholic Church for the UN. However, at the same time as this article was being released, the Watchtower was applying to be an NGO with the UN in 1991. They were granted association in 1992. They didn't remove themselves as an NGO until 2001! How can you not see the blatant hypocrisy here?

    4) I'm sure you remember the situation in Malawi decades ago. Jehovah's Witnesses were not permitted to purchase an inexpensive political card due to their neutral stance. Nothing can justify the action the people took against the Witnesses. Many brothers and sisters were tortured and killed. They suffered greatly. The question we need to ask is, did they suffer needlessly?

    At the same time that Witnesses were forbidden to hold a political card in Malawi, a comparable situation arose in Mexico. The Governing Body ruled in the complete opposite direction. In Mexico, military service was a requirement for young men. When they would complete their obligation they would receive a card, which was similar to the card in Malawi. The brothers who didn't go in for military service were persecuted and imprisoned. However, in complete contradiction of their position in Malawi, the Watchtower gave the Mexican brothers the option to bribe officials to obtain the card and thus be exempted from military service.

    So the brothers in Mexico were permitted to illegally obtain a card to avoid persecution and continue in theocratic work while the brothers and sisters in Malawi were not permitted to legally obtain a card to avoid persecution and continue in theocratic work. How is this okay?

    5) In Gen 28:13, Jehovah revealed himself to Jacob saying, "I am Jehovah the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac."

    b. But in Ex 6:3, Jehovah said to Moses, "I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."

    Questions:
    1) These verses completely contradict each other in the New World Translation. Which one of them is true?

    2) Is it possible that the translators of the NWT were overzealous in wanting to include the name "Jehovah" and so they inserted it in Genesis without realizing the contradiction they were creating by doing so?

    3) Did the translators make a mistake?

    4) Because it only takes one error to be imperfect, how can the Watchtower claim that the NWT is God's pure and perfect word?

    . God's word says in I Cor 11:26 that "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come."

    b. The Watchtower today teaches that Jesus returned in 1914 and that he will not physically return at a second coming. (Live Forever pages 147-149)

    Questions:
    1) If Jesus returned in 1914 and will not physically return to earth again, then why does the Watchtower teach Witnesses to continue remembering the Lord's death when Paul commanded us to remember it only until Jesus came back?

    2) Does it make sense to continue having memorial services for someone who is already with us here and now?

    3) How do we know from God's word alone that Jesus returned in 1914?

    6) Obviously, the NKJV chose to translate this word as worship. The New World Translation (NWT), however, chose to translate this word as obeisance (honor, respect) in all the above verses. What becomes interesting about the NWT, is that whenever the same Greek word, proskuneo, is used in relation to the Father, the translators translated it as worship, even though they rendered it differently in relation to Jesus. (This can be verified by looking in the Watchtower’s own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.) Is this a double standard? Is the NWT justified in translating this word 2 different ways; as obeisance to Jesus and as worship to the Father? Let’s look in the NWT at what Peter did when he was given obeisance.

    Acts 10:24-26 “On the day after that he entered into Caes·a·re'a. Cornelius, of course, was expecting them and had called together his relatives and intimate friends. As Peter entered, Cornelius met him, fell down at his feet and did obeisance to him. But Peter lifted him up, saying: “Rise; I myself am also a man.” (NWT)

    Interestingly, Peter refused this act of obeisance. Why did Peter so strongly oppose this act if obeisance only means honor and respect? Because, according to Peter, this act is reserved for God only, not man. Note, however, that unlike Peter, Jesus never sought to correct His followers when they bowed down and gave him obeisance. Jesus considered this act perfectly appropriate." Is this a mistake?

    7) W hat is the mystery of GOD and the father and the christ in colossians 2:2

  • FatFreek 2005
    FatFreek 2005

    Hi TNIB,

    It's always great to welcome new ones here and find them as eloquent as you. Those, indeed, are a great series of thought provoking arguments and questions. I'd hate to be a JW again -- encountering such stumpers.

    It's great to be on the inside of the door when a JW calls. I love it. I always get a chance to divulge the fact that I studied with them many years ago. Not a lie -- I simply don't expose the fact that I then became a MS, an elder, developed a bothered conscience that resulted in disfellowshipping.

    Their inevitable question -- "Why did you stop studying?" -- is the perfect lead to my introduction to The Great Watchtower Contradiction, an 11 minute read designed for new ones but which poses questions on topics that the most seasoned JW would cringe at.

    Contradiction contains a table handout that you can snip for purse or billfold. I always keep my billfold handy.

    Len

  • notsurewheretogo
    notsurewheretogo

    I'll answer your first question...

    Yes you need to be a baptised witness to be saved today...the people that the WT refer to, the ones who lived prior to the WT were, in effect, God's people and thus will be saved, if these ones were alive today then the WT would say they would be a JW...so the answer is not yes or no...yes you need to be a baptised JW to survive if you believe WT teachings today but people 500 years ago were not JW's but were God's people, just like JW's think they are and thus these ones get saved...

  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    Those are not stumpers.

    The answer for #1 is easy. There will be many besides active baptized JWs that will be saved. But if that is taught to the congregations, where will the incentive for the many to go out there to bring people in to save them?

    #2 dont' care enough.

    #3 Same as #2

    #4. If there is only one political party, then it is not a party. It is government policy.

    #5 is answered in the Watchtower library.

    #6 There is a difference between worship and honor. Worship is given according to one's worth. Jesus does not get as much worth as Jehovah so he is not worshipped. Those who do not understand that find that hard to grasp because they focus too much on Jesus as God.

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    If they true believe that there will be millions of non-JW's that will survive, then it means that by preaching we actually doom more people than we save.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    My question to a Jehovah's witness would be.

    Are you aware of the history of the WTS that concerns Malawi ???

    because many today don't know anything about their own religion

    My next question would be

    Do you have a Govn't issued Social security card ????

    And does it prove your citizenship ?????

    Does bein' in possesion of this card, means you are in allegiance wit Satan ??????

    If God can read the heart of an American Jehovah's Witness, is it possible He could read

    the heart of Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi ?????

    Next Question:

    Why refer to Isaiah 43:10 to validate the name you use today. Jehovah's witnesses

    when after the birth and durin' the baptism of Jesus , God said " This is my Son, listen to him "

    After his resurrection Jesus said " All authority had been given him, and Judgement placed in his hands "

    In Acts 1:8 Jesus excercised his authority by tellin' his followers " To be witnesses of him "

    Do you realize Isaiah 43:10 does not overide Acts 1:8 ??????

    DO YOU THINK IT IS WISE TO WITNESS IN A NAME OTHER THAN THE CHRIST ??????

    .

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    Dear Nurse (and others),

    The total fallacy behind your reasonings is that you evidently think you are dealing with reasonable people.

    I think back to how I would have "reasoned" on those questions. Easy. I would have quickly concluded that you were simply twisting words to try and make things that are so simple and clear to seem confusing. You obviously have wicked motives. If you are indeed so blinded, then it is because Jehovah is not revealing even these simple, fundamental things to you. He only draws to Him those with a right heart condition.

    Doc

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    For some real JW stumpers see Tim Gilgore's video channel and his "Tough Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses".

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TimKilgore

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Welcome,

    Glad to see your Critical Thinking skills are in order!

    The problem with trying this approach on R&F Witnesses is that ultimately it's really NOT about doctrine. It's about control. The WTBTS has been able to persuade its followers that there is no salvation outside of their organization.

    There is a clear delineation between their Public Message and their Insider Doctrine. This one of the hallmarks of a destructive cult. It's called Information Control. Once someone has become fully indoctrinated into "the party line" they cannot so easily be swayed my merely pointing out contradictions in their beliefs no matter how blatant.

    You might enjoy this thread which suggests taking a different approach in trying to reach someone in a cult:

    I look forward to more of your thoughtful contributions to the forum!

    00DAD

  • Emery
    Emery

    "Can you show me how you get 1914 from using only the bible?"

    "Can you show me how you get 1919 from using only the bible?"

    "Why do museums, historians, and archaeologists all around the world say Jerusalem fell in 586/7bc instead of 607bc?" (this will make them have to study the topic)

    "Why do you preach independent thinking and encourage an open mind to outsiders but condemn it for your fellow members?"

    "Why do you teach and encourage an unforgiving attitude towards disfellowshipped ones when Jesus teaches us differently?" (Matthew 18:21,22. Mark 11:25-26; Matthew 6:14-15; Luke 6: 37-38; John 5:24; Romans 2:1; James 2:13)

    If the Witness pull out 1 Corinthians 5:11, show them how that scripture was an exhortation and admonition that has to be personally made, not legally enforced by a religious institution. Show them 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15, "But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may be shamed. And YET DO NOT BE CONSIDERING HIM AS AN ENEMY, BUT CONTINUE ADMONISHING HIM AS A BROTHER." Show them that 1 Corinthians 5:11 uses the same Greek word found at 2 Thess which is used to establish the disfellowshiiping doctrine ("Not mixing in the company"). Ask the witness how the scripture found at 2 Thes can be any different? (Witnesses will say that this applies only to marked individuals who haven't committed grave sins in the congregation). Press them to provide evidence in scripture to say that 2 Thess only applies to a 2nd tier disciplinary action-- the context and idea not found in the scripture.

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