not ready to go over to the "dark side"

by nowwhat? 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    Basic Bible Truths?

    I was born in, a Ministerial Servent from age 19 and left in my thirties. Here's where I am now: On a good day I'm an agnostic, but most days I am an aethiest. I came to be that way to studying the topic of religion and using sources other than those of the Watch Tower.

    I do know this: The New World Translation is a horrible translation of the Bible. That most of Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings are based on the words of Paul and not Jesus. In fact, if you only accepted the Gospel accounts and through out the rest of the Bible, you would see just how unchristian Jehovah's Witnesses are.

    Religion is manmade. It is a tool to control the masses.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    nowwhat? -

    if you believe in t he bible you can't deny these basic bible truths

    Er..............yes you can actually.

    No disrespect to you but although I no longer believe in god, it all boils down to what scriptures you use and the context you put them in. The churches have good reason for what they believe in the same as the JWs do.

    The JWs take a lot of scriptures out of context and mix and match them with more variety than the old Woolworth's sweet counter.

    Next time you have to endure a meeting can I ask you to check the context of the scriptures used for these doctrines. IE. read the verses before and after. Be open minded. You might find the NLP and logical fallacies used are tricking you into believing something that isn't a 'basic bible truth'.

    Personally, I no longer believe any of it....just saying. Trying to be a helpful little punky.

  • unstopableravens
    unstopableravens

    hi,i know what your thinking i was there, i use to be adimmit that hell is not literal and jesus is not god,but i am very convinced that is what the bible teaches, pm me if you want to talk about these subjects.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Not to attack you or your opening post, but there are still many JW "thought stoppers" that you need to overcome. These are things that I think most of us have had to examine on our way out of WT.

    "so for those of you that are sincere where else is there to go?"

    If you ask it that way, you need to go back and reread the gospels. Jesus never established a publishing corporation or even constructed a church. If you're saying, "I must have an 'organization', look back at how well the Jewish 'organization' didn't work out in gaining Jesus' approval.

    "Jehovah and Jesus expect his followers to live by righteous standards according to their best imperfect abilitites, [sorry gay guys]"

    You look around the world today and select "gay guys" as the one injustice and violation of "righteous standards" worth mentioning? You couldn't choose [sorry rapists], or [sorry guys who look covetously at women they aren't married to]? I mean, even if you don't think "gay guys" are okay, is homophobia your #1 criteria for selecting a new 'organization'? You look past the WT injustices of protecting pedophiles, demanding that people bleed to death based on WTs flawed interpretations of ancient Jewish dietary restrictions, disfellowshipping people for contradicting JW dogma etc., and call anything outside WT "dark side"? Watchtower is the "dark side" that you seem hesitant to leave. But you're certainly not alone on this thinking. Plenty of JWs, like my own parents, see the WT pedo problem as a terrible stain, yet respond with, "where else is there to go?" And it's easier to target gays as an example of unrighteousness, rather than to carefully consider the ways that we ourselves might somehow be unrighteous.

    And judging by your list of "basic Bible truths," shouldn't you be including preaching from door to door, using the name Jehovah, and unquestioningly following the "Faithful Slave Class"? LOL. Some "basic Bible truths" are easier to challenge and reject/defend than others.

    As often illustrated on here, the WT house you're living in is engulfed in flames, but you hesitate to escape from the burning wreckage until someone presents you with a newer and better house for you to live in that meets your particular requirements at this moment. Or if you're a diehard JW and need another illustration, the WT Titanic is sinking fast, but you're afraid to take to the water and float alone atop some debris because you think you'd rather wait for a cruise ship to rescue you? I know those illustrations pretty well describe the way that I wasted many of the last years I remained a JW.

    "for those of you that are sincere"

    Do you think that only people that believe the same way you do qualify as "sincere"? You think the rest of us really haven't thought about our beliefs and course of action and are somehow insincere?

    If you feel you must belong to a church, there are plenty of churches that don't demand conformation and emphasize Jesus teachings of "not judging others," "love your neighbor," etc. There are also plenty of churches that demand complete conformation and emphasize judging others and creating enemies to hate.

    Although you didn't mention it, this thought also comes up about the same time, "What's the point of living if JWs aren't "the truth"? Life seems hopeless without the promise of a panda-petting paradise." That's a JW indoctrinated self-destruct mechanism. You've been trained that life without the organization is not worth living and that if you leave, your life will spiral downward into drugs, disease, abuse, and suicide. It's all part of the cult programming. Don't fall victim to that.

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Nowwhat: "... so for those of you that are sincere where else is there to go? "

    I liken your situation to that of an ex-con who has just been released from prison after a long, long sentence. You're so accustomed to your WT jail cell that you can't see what's out there and are afraid of what you may find.

    The only answer is to get out and look around -- read, take some classes at your local university, join a club, get to know some "wordly" people. You'll soon find lots of places to go.

    BTW, you can hold your Bible beliefs without being a dub.

    Parakeet.

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    nowwhat? wrote:

    what i need is the "light of pure bible truth".

    There may be a difference between real truth and "bible truth." It's possible that real truth may be preferable and worth your attention.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    If you're determined to remain a Christian, then you'll want to find like-minded Christians who follow the Christ's teachings and example as shown in these Scriptures.

    Being faithful doesn't mean bringing yourself under someone's control - religion is a snare & a racket, so be as cautious as a serpent & innocent as dove, whatever you decide.

    Keep in mind 2 Thess. 2:11,12 - there are lies & liars everywhere.

    (Matthew 9:35) And Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom.

    (Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

    (Matthew 28:19) Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations.

    (Mark 16:15) And he said to them: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

    (Luke 9:2) And so he sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God

    (1 Corinthians 9:16) If, now, I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe is me if I did not declare the good news!

    (Colossians 1:25-28)...I became a minister of this [congregation] in accordance with the stewardship from God which was given me in YOUR interest to preach the word of God fully, the sacred secret that was hidden from the past systems of things and from the past generations. But now it has been made manifest to his holy ones, to whom God has been pleased to make known what are the glorious riches of this sacred secret among the nations. It is Christ in union with YOU, the hope of [his] glory. He is the one we are publicizing, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man complete in union with Christ.

    (Titus 1:2-3) Upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God, who cannot lie, promised before times long lasting, whereas in his own due times he made his word manifest in the preaching.

    (Philippians 1:15) True, some are preaching the Christ through envy and rivalry, but others also through goodwill.

    (2 Timothy 4:1-2) I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is destined to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his kingdom, preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching.

    (Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house. (Acts 28:30-31) So he remained for an entire two years in his own hired house, and he would kindly receive all those who came in to him, preaching the kingdom of God to them and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with the greatest freeness of speech, without hindrance.

    (Romans 10:8-15) But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart"; that is, the "word" of faith, which we are preaching. For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation. For the Scripture says: "None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: "How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!"

    (1 Timothy 4:16) Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

    (1 Thessalonians 2:4) but, just as we have been proved by God as fit to be entrusted with the good news, so we speak, as pleasing, not men, but God, who makes proof of our hearts.

    (1 Corinthians 9:22)...to the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, that I might by all means save some.

    (1 Peter 3:15)...But sanctify the Christ as Lord in YOUR hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect.

    (Acts 1:8) but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."

    (Romans 10:18) Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, "into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances."

    (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

    (Romans 11:13) Now I speak to YOU who are people of the nations. Forasmuch as I am, in reality, an apostle to the nations, I glorify my ministry,

    (Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in mid heaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,

    (Romans 1:15-16) so there is eagerness on my part to declare the good news also to YOU there in Rome. For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God’s power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek;

    (1 Corinthians 9:16) If, now, I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe is me if I did not declare the good news!

    (Acts 20:24) Nevertheless, I do not make my soul of any account as dear to me, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received of the Lord Jesus, to bear thorough witness to the good news of the undeserved kindness of God.

  • Cagefighter
    Cagefighter

    I can't prove the existence or non-existence of God.

    I can't prove the validity of the bible.

    I can't prove the Jesus is the only way.

    What I can prove is that either by design or accident every man (and woman) must decide the truth and the way to live for themselves and act accordingly.

    Which means you have two choices: You can follow someone else and hope you made the right choice or you can use your own abilities to answer the eternal question for yourself.

    Free Advice: If I was in your shoes, I would begin to expose yourself to some historical interpretations of Christ, the apostles and the Old Testament. Sure you will find some people trying to prove an agenda, but some things will be very enlightening.

  • cofty
    cofty
    as someone with a bible trained concience you wind up being caught in the middle.

    So if you didn't have the bible would you really be going around doing terrible things and thinking it was OK?

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    Now what, like the other posters, I've been there too! I remember telling my friends while I was a JW, "If we don't have the truth, no one does." Alot leave the Watchtower, and always keep that view.

    Now that I'm gone, I'm finding that there is a whole lot more truth outside the WT than we thought.

    What I recommend is this: Start over. And I mean ALL OVER. Decide not to know anything. (1Cor 2:2) Acknowledge that this was not "the truth". They have developed many doctrines over the years that are not biblical.

    Jesus said to watch out for false prophets. They dress in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. (Matt 7:15). Think of what that means in regards to the Watchtower. Most of us have seen that they are false prophets. They have falsly prophesied not once, or twice, or even three times. But MANY MANY times. So how are they dressed in sheeps clothing?

    First, they make it seem like all their doctrine and prophecy are based on scripture. They are not making it up themselves. It is the SCRIPTURES that indicate these things. See the wool? It's not men. It's God. If it was obvious that MEN were making these doctrines up, we would see the wolf right away. And this isn't just apparent in prophecy. It is true in their doctrines of Jesus (degrading him to an angel), their doctrines on death and the soul, their doctrines on the divine name, etc.

    Second, they look like sheep! They sound like sheep! They seem to show love all over the world. They seem to preach God's Kingdom. They seem to be thoroughly dedicated to God. But that is merely the wool. They are false prophets that have decieved millions, spiritually abused millions, and lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

    The best advice I can give you is to start over again. Read the NT alone. Pick a translation other than the NWT (not that it is even a translation). Take some time to yourself, and read through it. See who the early Christians thought the person of Jesus was. See who they thought the Holy Spirit was. A person? A power? See what and who we are to focus on. Take your time. Don't worry what other people think. Just pray for the Holy Spirit to teach you. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would be there to guide you into ALL truth. John 16:13 says: " But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

    If you believe that, and are open to follow truth wherever it leads, you will be fine. That is the key. Follow truth. Even if it leads you into areas that you are scared of, or challenges doctrines that you've always loved. As you read through the NT, pay close attention to Romans and Galatians. Those two books damage the WT positon greatly. Reading them without WT or even outside Christian materials will show you a stark contrast to what the WT teaches. Read and ponder of John 1. Read Romans 8 and see how different this is from WT "theology". Read Galatians and ponder over the freedom we have in Christ and how we no longer have to follow rules, requirements, works, etc. It is all about grace. And we obey, not because of enforcement of rules or fear of punishment, but because of intense love for God.

    As has been brought out, it is not "where am I to go". It is "Who else is there to go to?" Jesus is the only way, truth, and life. The ONLY way. We will not find salvation in any other. Nor will we find salvation by taking refuge in a church or organization and dedicating ourselves to them. However, we CAN find great support and freedom in being able to worship with others. And knowing that they TOO are Christians. There are Christians in MANY churches. And there are non denominational churches that will accept you, even if you reject Trinity, Hell, etc... There is not an enforcement of belief as there was in the WT. You can feel free to disagree with the pastor who is speaking. You can tell him to his face! You can have lively conversations about it. And...NOT BE DF'D!!!

    I hope this helped. Remember that this is a long journey. Don't tie yourself down. You are already doing good in saying "I'm not ready". Keep that. Only do what you are ready for. Take your time. Examine everything. Why you believe what you believe. What you believe. And be willing to follow truth. Truth has nothing to hide. Only error hides from inquiry.

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