In society's Revelation book chapter 29 verse 10 on page 201 states the 24 elders are 144,000 and all are singing the same song, how can that be? In their bible the only ones that can master that song is the 144,000. Not the four living creatures nor the elders. This 144,000 group is standing before the 24 elders. If the 24 elders were to know it also, then it would be 168,000 that knew the song. What's up with that or am I missing some marbles? I don't know if this has been posted before but if it has can I have a refund on this posting since it's my last post?
Revelation 14:3 Who sings the new song???????
by label licker 50 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Newly Enlightened
Then when you read the WTS explanation, it's the most ridiculous sounding thing ever. This puzzled me for years. How can the 24 elders possibly be the 144,000 only in a different viewpoint? Wouldn't they still know the song? Doesn't make much sense to me.
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mouthy
Why is this your last post Fed up with us already????
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rip van winkle
Lol-Mouthy!!!!
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label licker
Thank you bobcat for your awesome words of wisdom. Yup! We have to make this our new, ummmm, I don't want to say religion, but spiritual gathering. You realise from time to time when I'm reading the botchtower they'll change their views down the road after I see it here first? You can see a pushing and a shoving going on and the sad part is the followers can't see the behind scenes. Watch and see down the road if the society doesn't bring new light on this scripture. Hey Mouthy, hubby has just shown me what my post reply means. I only saw the number one left and thought that was it but I have eight. With great insightful conversations here I will never be fed up of any of you. I just wish I could of had a congregation filled with all of you instead. Oh wow, I just got an idea. Go to friends
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mouthy
Well I thought you were fed up with ME.I love your hubby( newsheep) & I havent even met him
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cptkirk
what ever happened to the concept of the bible being written "In simple terms", so that anyone seeking to know god/truth would be able to do that? I can just picture a single mom with a daughter that was just diagnosed with leukemia, DO YOU KNOW THE SONG???? WTTF, 144,000 anointed are jw's, what???? you dare challenge our interpretation that has already been wrong 3458934u59438543 3456843-X^9999 times? you will be destroyed! just look at the cover of the awake DOOM BITCH DOOM FOR YOU! SING THE SONG GO GOGOGOGOG EVERLASTING LIFE , what was it that they used to do? tear the garments? i'm going to tear my garments and sing the song of the anointed because I AM SAVED ! SATAN WANTS YOU ALIVE!!!! that is what an elder's wife told me, satan wants me alive lololol.
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Larsinger58
I like this reference.
That's because the new song specifically is said to be the "song of MOSES!"
Rev. 15: 3 And they are singing the song of Moses the slave of God and the song of the Lamb, saying:
“Great and wonderful are your works, Jehovah God, the Almighty..."Who can sing the song of "Moses" other than the Jews? No one! So the 144,000 clearly is a reference to the natural Jews! But that is as specifically sated that they are made up of 12,000 from each tribe, so the 144,000 has always been represented as Jews.
But in the NT, there are, indeed, "spiritual Jews." The kingdom is likened to an olive tree where many, unfaithful Jewish natural olive branches are looped off and gentile "wild olive" branches are grafted into the Jewish tree. Of course, the Bible clearly notes that the root of the tree remains Jewish. With that concept in mind, Isa 6:13 lets us understand just who the 144,000 must be:
Isa 6:13 And there will still be in it a tenth, and it must again become something for burning down, like a big tree and like a massive tree in which, when there is a cutting down [of them], there is a stump; a holy seed will be the stump of it.”
See the parallel?
Again, we see a tree, representing the holy priesthood through Abraham. But because of unfaithfulness, that tree was chopped down. This parallels the Jewish branches being lopped off. But note the stump of the tree remains Jewish! Thus it is through a remnant of the Jews that the Abrahamic covenant still gets to be fulfilled. That stump, that holy stump that remains Jewish, though, is 1/10th of the entire tree. Therefore, if the 144,000 are natural Jews, which they are since they are the only ones who can masterthe "song of Moses", that is, they are the only ones who can call Moses their savior out of Egypt, then the entire number of gentiles must make up the rest of the tree, that is 90%. That means 144,000 are natural Jews and 1,296,000 (90%) are gentiles.
This, of course, means the WTS is totally out of touch with the reality of who the 144,000 truly is.
NOW HOW IS THIS ACTUALLY FULFILLED? That is, how can you get 12,000 from each tribe during the end times when the 12 tribes of Israel were not even in place during Jesus' time? Well, that's the challenge, isn't it. Well, this scripture explains it:
ISA 60:22 The little one himself will become a thousand, and the small one a mighty nation. I myself, Jehovah, shall speed it up in its own time.”
And just what does this mean? It simply means that the original 12 tribes of Israel were created from one individual, thus it would only take one individual to become a nation over time. Thus while the 12 tribes of Israel were no longer in existence in Jesus' time, there were INDIVIDUALS, that is, "little ones" or "small ones" who could trace their lineage back to the 12 tribes of Israel. So in order to have a pool from each tribe alive when Christ arrives at the 2nd coming in 1992, one way to assure this was to allow some or at least one from each of the 12 tribes to stay alive over the period of 1900 years and at some point in time, marry into the modern indigenous peoples so that after maybe a couple hundred years, yhou have 2 to 3 million descendants from that person from the 1st century and then holy spirit would select 12,000 from each tribe to fulfill the covenant for Abraham.
So in fact, right now, there are likely several million descendants from each of those people from the 1st century. Now this reference is in relation to John and Paul as well, who are noted in scripture to be among those chosen to survive down to our day. So besides members or a member from the 12 tribes being chosen to survive down to our day, also Paul and John were chosen never to die and to live down to our day. Now I've seen them in person, that is, John and Paul. Of course, that's only because I'm the Christ and they would have wanted to see me up close as well. So that's one of the spiritual perks for being the Christ.
But, remember, John was one of the people who was told upon seeing Christ ascend up to heaven for the last time that he would return just as they saw him. Since he woudl never die, the person he saw go up into the sky must have looked exactly like me! That is, a nerdy looking gay black man with glasses! What do you think?
Keep in mind, Christ never appeared in his original appearance after his resurrection, but was always changing his appearance which kept the disciples guessing. But that was to emphasize that Christ would be in a different body when he returned, and apparently specifically the last body he was in when he ascended to heaven, which wasmy double!
Now when it says that God would "speed it up in its own time", you must realize how easy it would be. Even if there was just one person from each tribe who married into the indigenous population, the early families could have been very large. The Christ comes through the line of Joseph/Epharaim at the second coming. I have an aunt who had 17 kids, and my grandmother's family is a family of 17 children! Mty dad comes from a family of 10. Plus remember, polygamy is not condemned in the Bible and also is customary in many native peoples. So someone could have 10 wives with 15 kids each for the first generation. I heard Ben Ladin has like 70 brothers and sisters! If you can imagine the first generation being 70 siblings with similar mulbiplying every generation, it wouldn't take long to set up a base in the first few generations that would easily multiply into the millions in a hundred years or so.
So the kingdom seats, those who reign with Christ will be 1,440,000, with 144,000 being the natural Jews, those being the only ones who could masterthe "song of Moses" which is a song only the Jews would know or could sing.
Now aren't you glad I'm here to explain all this and fill in the blanks.All to hard to believe? Maybe. But it is what the Bible teaches and what I know to be reality.
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AGuest
Who can sing the song of "Moses" other than the Jews? No one! So the 144,000 clearly is a reference to the natural Jews! But that is as specifically sated that they are made up of 12,000 from each tribe, so the 144,000 has always been represented as Jews.
This is inaccurate, dear Lars (peace to you!). It supposes the common error (fomented by the Jews and made by many) that Israel only consists OF the Jews... and that is not true. Israel is a nation of 12 tribes, of which the Jews (Yehudi) are made up of only two: Judah (the Yehudim) and Benjamin. These two make up the NATION of "Judah"... which nation occupied the land of Judea, and had its capital (and center of worship at the temple) at Jerusalem. The other 10 tribes made up the NATION of "Israel"... which nation occupied the land of Samaria, and had its capital (and center of worship in the mountains) at Bethel.
ALL of Israel followed Moses, NOT just the Jews... and so ALL of Israel could sing that song. The 144,000 is NOT a reference to the natural Jews alone, then, but as the verse states "from among the sons of ISRAEL"... with the tribes represented being named. Notice, more are named than only Judah and Benjamin, the Jews.
And so the 144,000 have always been represented by Israel... and all tribes, except Dan (as the firstborn of Rachel, Jacob (Israel's) TRUE wife), Joseph receives a double share (Manasseh and Ephraim/Joseph). They are simply the "remnant" that JAH seals in order to ensure His promise to Abraham is fulfilled. Because otherwise, Israel might have NO seats in the kingship/priesthood. They are guaranteed 144,000, though... with the rest, in an amount no man can number (because it's number isn't known until the "Door"... Christ... is "closed" - right now, he stands "open") going to the non-Israelite Gentiles (the "nations").
If you keep teaching that the 144,000 consists of ONLY Jews, you are only advancing the WTBTS (and world's) lie... that absolutely discounts 10 other tribes of Israel. JAH did not leave off His love for ANY tribe in her - He put both Israel and Judah off for a time... for their fornication against Him. Oholah and Oholibah. But, in HIS love and mercy for "her"... and even more, for Abraham... He will make good on His promise: by means of Abraham's seed... Christ, the firstfruits, then Israel... ALL of the tribes... as the firstfruits from among mankind... and then the nations... ALL the nations of the earth... will bless themselves.
I hope this helps... and I hope you will look into this because, again, your position utterly dismisses 10/12ths of Israel. Which JAH has never thought of doing.
Your servant and a doulos of Christ,
SA