by RWC 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
I agree with your view on sin Derek. But I think the word 'sin' was invented by the priests who wrote the hebrew scriptures to keep men in subjection to them. It also proved to be a veritable cash cow.
Religion IS the opiate of the people.
Imagination is more important than Knowledge. Albert Einstein
When the killer say, I have no sin I feel no guilt
He is not saying the truth
Vida, who are you to judge what is in the killer's mind or heart?
Funkyderek, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of all including those in the future. Yours included. Sin is a wrong against God. It seperates us from him and without the reconcilation of Jesus, we would never bridge that gap. That is why Jesus is our Savior.
Sins come in all shape and sizes, some serious and some not so serious, but ever since the fall of man, we have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So nobody but Jesus has ever been born without sin.
You can choose not to believe it and that is your free will. But it is a gift that has already been made available to you.
Whenever Vida says something, she means something else.
- Nathan Natas, UADNA
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America)
Holy Week Rocks? Rather transparent attempt to snatch a few young people and drag them to your Baptist lair. Come on where is the real research? Sargon how do you guys put up with these fellas using this forum to lure unsuspecting young JWs away just to be lied to again.
Funkyderek, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of all including those in the future. Yours included.
How does somebody's death save us from "sin"? I don't see the connection.
Sin is a wrong against God.But
nobody but Jesus has ever been born without sin.So when I was born I had already wronged god? My very existence, over which I had no control, was a wrong against god, for which I will be punished unless I believe that 2000 years ago, someone died to save me from the wrong against god which I would commit simply by being born?
It seperates us from him and without the reconcilation of Jesus, we would never bridge that gap. That is why Jesus is our Savior.Nope, still don't get it. Surely if god simply gave up his policy of punishing the innocent, there would have been no need to kill someone to make it all better?
Sins come in all shape and sizes, some serious and some not so serious, but ever since the fall of man, we have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.But I thought simply being born is a sin?
You can choose not to believe it and that is your free will.I don't choose what to believe. To do so would be the worst kind of dishonesty. I believe what the available evidence compels me to believe.
But it is a gift that has already been made available to you.Some gift! Let me get this straight. Just be being born, I've already committed a "wrong against god". To be "saved" from the punishment (by God) that goes with that "wrong", I must believe - without evidence - that this god had his son executed, and that this execution saves me from the "sin" I was born with. Or am I missing something?
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"Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything." -Robert A. Heinlein
Funkyderek,
I don't see why this is so complicated. Surely you "get" it, but are choosing not to believe it. The plan is like this: God created a perfect world and in it he put man who he gave free will to follow God or not. Man chose not to follow God's directions and sin entered the world. This sin seperated us from God. All are born with this original sin and must be reconciled to God. Since there is nothing we can do through deed are good works to overcome this, God sent his son to pay the sacrifice in our place. Now through believing in him we can be reconciled to God. It was the ultimate sacrifice done in our place.
I do not believe that you are so arrogant to think that you have done nothing wrong in your life. That you have never wronged anyone or hurt their feelings, yelled without cause, said something hurtful, or in anyway acted in such a manner to hurt someone else. That would be classified as a sin. So even if you do not want to believe in the original sin, you have fallen short of the perfection that God would require but for the perfection of Jesus.
Now you must be honest that you have made the choice not to belive. You hav been exposed to religious training and the Bible, the evidence of God's existence and his word has been given to you. You chose not to belive under the quise of you need more evidence.
I don't see why this is so complicated. Surely you "get" it, but are choosing not to believe it. The plan is like this: God created a perfect world and in it he put man who he gave free will to follow God or not. Man chose not to follow God's directions and sin entered the world. This sin seperated us from God. All are born with this original sin and must be reconciled to God. Since there is nothing we can do through deed are good works to overcome this, God sent his son to pay the sacrifice in our place. Now through believing in him we can be reconciled to God. It was the ultimate sacrifice done in our place.
OK, so apparently I wasn't missing something. It sounds marginally less absurd the way you describe it, but essentially that's exactly what I said above. I hoped there was some logic to it that I hadn't noticed. Obviously not.
I do not believe that you are so arrogant to think that you have done nothing wrong in your life. That you have never wronged anyone or hurt their feelings, yelled without cause, said something hurtful, or in anyway acted in such a manner to hurt someone else. That would be classified as a sin. So even if you do not want to believe in the original sin, you have fallen short of the perfection that God would require but for the perfection of Jesus.I have wronged many people in my life, and I have been wronged by many people. If that is your definition of sin, then we are all sinners. However, I would be fairly angry if someone who had wronged me expected my forgiveness because they had decided to believe in the 2000 year old ghost of a Jewish carpenter. It may be enough for you and your god, but my standards are higher.
Now you must be honest that you have made the choice not to belive. You hav been exposed to religious training and the Bible, the evidence of God's existence and his word has been given to you. You chose not to belive under the quise of you need more evidence.The available evidence is not sufficient for me to determine for certain whether or not there is a god. In the absence of such evidence, I assume that there is not - as in this case, I think an absence of evidence can be taken as circumstantial evidence of absence. Regarding your particular god, there is enough evidence to show that he cannot possibly exist. You believe without evidence, and think that such gullibility - or faith, if you prefer - will guarantee you salvation from something which your religion invented in the first place. I believe only in things that actually exist.
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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
To Peacefulpete,
I've enjoyed alot of your postings, you seem to have studied extensively on olden days. I don't understand though where you got the idea that I'm still affiliated with the org. As far as I'm concerned, any religious wacko who wants to can go pick fruit at the KH's.
Imagination is more important than Knowledge. Albert Einstein
