The 1919 Date (page 3)

Phizzy

I think, seeing as they are going to earn out of this, they should pay for the rights Jeffro, your fine work deserves recompense, they should not "muzzle the bull that grinds the grain" or whatever it was. LOL

Jeffro

Maybe this means I'm the Messiah.

Though I'm not a drug-addicted cross-dressing prostitute hiding from the CIA in a dumpster.

So... maybe not.

Pterist

Thanks for the Time outline Cedars. I could never understand or believe it from the WTS perspective.

Nero's Persecution of Christians has be shown to be exactly 42 months and is more credible to fulfill the book of Daniel, and Revelation, endind the Jewish period in 70AD and subsequently, the start of the New Israel, Spiritual Jerusalem in the heavens. Out of the Martyred (great tribulation) symbolic 144K spiritual Israel came the blessings to ALL the nations. Rev. 7, and 14.

Shalom

Nambo

The Biblical pattern for things to come in this incidence of Jesus leading his people into Paradise whilst the plagues of Revelation reign on disobiediant mankind, was demonstrated when Moses lead the Hebrews out of Egypt and into the promised land.

The Egyptians were in no doubt they were being visited with divine plagues in that earlier type.

It is pure nonsense and self deciept to imagine we are living in the greater fullfillment of that most visible demonstartion of Gods actions to show his might to the Nations as he acted on behalf of his people, is God really that Impotent now that when you ask the average Joe in the street what he thinks about the plagues God is suppossedly reigning down right now, he will be totally unaware of it,

truth is, we are not living in Revelation since 1919, but when we are, then you are not going to have to knock on peoples door to bring it to thier attention.

Jeffro

Nero's Persecution of Christians has be shown to be exactly 42 months and is more credible to fulfill the book of Daniel,

There's nothing in Daniel that needs 'fulfilling' by anything that ever happened to early 'Christians'. Writings of Daniel such as the '69 weeks' 'prophecy' have been co-opted by Christians, but it actually has nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity at all.

Pterist

Jeffro....The context of the book of Daniel is that Kingdoms from Babylon to the Roman Empire, trampled and had power over Jerusalem until God's kingdom would be setup. MY OPINION is that at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD the book of Daniel was fulfilled when Christ as the corner stone of the Spiritual Israel, died and rose from the dead to began this New Creation in the heavens. The final judgement was carried out on fleshly Israel and Christ resurrected his Spiritual Israel rev. 7 and 14 to the heavens, and is now ruling in a symbolic millenium, bringing blessings and salvation to gentile nations until the final GLOBAL judgement and ressurection. .....Just Saying....not a condition for salvation, which is a changed empowering life in Christ.

Shalom

Jeffro

Pterist:

The context of the book of Daniel is that Kingdoms from Babylon to the Roman Empire, trampled and had power over Jerusalem until God's kingdom would be setup.

Except, it's not. The book of Daniel only covers things up to the 2nd BCE. Beyond that, it doesn't align with actual history beyond speculative intepretation.

DATA-DOG

Question for Pterist: If everything was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem, aka, no secondary fulfillments, is the parousia or coming along side of Christ referring to every persons individual relationship with Christ? In other words the Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit and you can be " grafted in ". When you face your personal trials through this life and rely on Christ then he resides in you. You are experiencing his parousia. Then we finish this life course. There is no secondary Great Tribulation or any of that stuff. It's heaven or bust? What is the earth for? I am just asking. I thought about the parousia today and that theory popped into my mind. Suffering for Christ is the tribulation that we will experience. We will all finish our earthly course is the feeling I have been having lately, and I am ok with that. Hope this make sense. Long day, drinking margerhitas now...

jwfacts

Thanks for the scan Cedars, that really helps clarify the teaching and its lack of credibility.

Venderhoven7 - "So too, 3 and a half years after His presence began in October 1914, He cleansed His heavenly temple (1918) and appointed His F&DS 1919 to represent His cleansed heavenly class."

You correctly define the Watchtower position. What is unclear is how they come up with those dates from any Biblical support. I would like to see a JW apologist answer what the period for 1918 to 1919 is supposed to align with.

I also wonder how they justify moving the date from Oct to Dec for the start of the 42 months, other than that they want it to align with the imprisonment.

Do the current GB really believe this date? 1919 is something they have studied in depth, since they have just released the new F&D slave doctrine as based on this date. So they must be aware of what a farce it is.

Pterist

Datadog..

***If everything was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem, aka, no secondary fulfillments,***

My understanding from scripture is that everything for Fleshly Israel was fulfilled as Spiritual Israel was setup in the heavens after 70AD. Israel was to be a blessings to nations, rev 7 and 12 seems to show out of their great tribulation and martyrdom came blessings to us. Out of or after their tribulation came a great crowd that were blessed by their pioneering. Like out of the ashes a new empire arouse...Over the 2000 years we are the NATION of that New Creation and New City.

However, there is a final battle as Satan is given permission to mislead the nations and a global resurrection for final judgement for the rest of mankind that were NOT in the FIRST Resurrection. Rev, 20:7-15.

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Christians have existed for over 2000 years, they did not ALL experience any "great tribulation" but as you said the normal day to day battles of life and spiritual warfare against our sin in the flesh...so a GREAT TRIBULATION is not consistant for ALL. ..yes, this would be "heaven or bust" until the final battle

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****What is the earth for*****

Science and scripture shows the universe is entropic and will die. If everything was created with "immortal life" and free will, it would be an ETERNAL disaster. This whole creation is the testing ground to experience free will as we are not robots. God foresaw those who would want his system and his way of life in this life, and adopts us into his family with the gift of his eternal life that is in our second Adam aka Christ Jesus, to growth in immortality in "New Heavens and New Earth". The resurrection will be spiritual bodies suitable for whatever Eternal environment......Just Sayin .....I need another Guinness .......

Shalom my friend

The 1919 Date

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