What About Adam & Eve? (page 2)

blondie

1928 Reconciliation

The Scriptures do not reveal the order in which the Lord will bring back the dead. It has been suggested that those dying last will be raised first. In support of that conclusion the words of Jesus are cited, to wit: "But many that are first shall be last; and the last first." (Mark 10: 31) But these words can hardly be thus applied without taking them out of their setting. It does seem reasonable, however, that the Lord will bring back the dead in an order the reverse of that in which they have gone into the tomb. The Scriptures show that he will hear the prayers of the obedient living ones. To this end it seems reasonable to expect that the living ones would pray for the return of those nearest of kin to them.

Just when Adam will be awakened, only the Lord knows. It may be early or it may be late during the

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period of restoration. When the great Highway is open, however, Abel will be one of the princes there. Knowing that his father Adam was once a prince and how he became a pauper, Abel may have a keen interest in telling his father about God's gracious goodness in providing redemption and deliverance and in telling Adam how he can be restored to his first glory. Abel may also be eager to tell his mother Eve that the Devil, who deceived her, can not deceive her now, because he is restrained. It would surely be a real joy to Prince Abel to instruct and aid his old father and mother to journey over The King's Highway, to see them climbing up, turning their hearts wholly to God, and being restored to the days of their youth. God may bring them back in consideration of the earnest prayer of this faithful prince. We do know that in God's due time Christ will bring forth Adam and Eve from the grave, because he has declared that all shall come forth and that they that obey shall live. (John 5: 25) Adam and his children must have that great privilege, because the blood of Jesus shed as a ransom for all is a guarantee thereof.

cofty

"One redeemer was quite sufficient in the plan which God adopted, because only one had sinned, and only one had been condemned. Others shared his condemnation...One unforfeited life could redeem one forfeited life and no more. The one perfect man, "the man Christ Jesus," who redeems the fallen Adam (and our losses through him) could not have been a ransom for all under any other circumstances than those of the plan which God chose." - Divine Plan of the Ages 1886 p.132

Rutherford initially went along with this view. The following is from "The Harp of God " 1921

Jesus must reduce his perfect humanity to a purchasing value, which we may call merit, and which merit or purchasing value would be sufficient for the payment of Adam's debt and release Adam and his offspring from that judgement. In order to provide this price it was necessary for Jesus to die. - p.142

By dying he reduced his perfect life to an asset that might thereafter be used to release Adam and his offspring from death. - p.140

In 1939 in the Book "Salvation" Rutherford changed this doctrine...

The judgement entered against Adam was just, it must stand forever....

1Tim2:6. This text does not say or mean that Adam was or is ransomed, but does mean that the human perfection once possessed by the perfect man Adam (and which human perfection carried with it the right to life, which life and right thereto were forfeited by the wilful disobedience of Adam) is purchased or bought back or ransomed for Adam's offspring, who were prevented from receiving that life and right thereto by reason of Adam's sin - p.176

The emphasis then was still on the value of Jesus' life rather than the significance of His death. But rather than, Adam, it was now "human perfection" and a "right to life" that Jesus had redeemed.

I don't have the quote from The Divine Plan where Russell said that god planned Adam's fall from the beginning but I will have a look for it if I can find the book.

Cold Steel

The fact that Eve was deceived and so her sin wasn't deliberate was simply ignored. Not sure, why. Maybe God simply didn't like her.

Perhaps. Or perhaps God was just "ribbing" them...heh heh. Many later accounts by the ancient Christians held that Adam intentionally fell so as not to leave his wife. He could not have multiplied and replinished the earth without her. There's no account that tells us how long it was before they fell. It could have been many years. If he loved Eve, he would have made the concious decision to cast his lot with hers.

Russell taught that Adam's fall was not only foreknown it was part of god's Divine Plan of The Ages before creation and that the ransom was to redeem Adam - one perfect life for one perfect life.

So how does this relate to "new light"? If the first is last, perhaps Charles T. will be right and the FDS will be wrong. Or perhaps the slave will just admit they don't know -- that as the churches of Christ say, "Where the Bible speaks, we speak; where the Bible's silent, we are silent!"

Once you showed your dad, what did he say? Is Adam and Eve's fate something most JWs have an opinion about?

My view on the matter is that how could a just and merciful God condemn the couple? They were innocents, like little children. I don't know many parents who would kill their children if they disobeyed an explicit command. (Deny them blood transfusions, perhaps, but not kill them.) If God knows the end from the beginning, it stands to reason that He knew that Adam and Eve would sin. The ancient Christians not only believed that Adam and Eve would be resurrected, they wrote accounts of their baptisms. To think that Adam and Eve lived for nearly a thousand years, one would think they would have repented and gotten to know Jehovah, the great Judge and Mediator between the Father and man. That would have made him a prophet and the greatest of the patriarchs. While in the Garden, they walked and talked with the Father (which has interesting implications in itself). But once they sinned, they needed a Mediator...and it just so happened that God had provided one. Why would He have appointed One if He didn't know?

The Orthodox Christians and the LDS believe that only through the Fall and the redemption could man become what God is. They never could have known the difference between good and evil. In other words, the Fall was always part of the Plan, and Charles T. apparently knew that.

Left in the Cold

"Eve was framed".-bumbler sticker I saw once.

I always believed that anyone who had already been 'judged' by Jehovah wasn't going to come back. But, then again, I never thought to look and see if the bible really says that. I just thought it was right. (I can't believe half the stuff I never questioned.)

DeWandelaar

21 When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” 22 Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain j until k I come, what is that to you? l You follow me!” 23 So the saying spread abroad among m the brothers 2 that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”

What will happen to Adam, Eve, Abel, Cain or any other person is not really interesting... it is more interesting (especially for Christ) that YOU and ME are following him. I do not know for sure what will happen to them and for some reason I never really cared... I do not even know what will eventually happen to me. It is already hard enough to walk straight without stumbling :)

What About Adam & Eve?

blondie

cofty

Cold Steel

Left in the Cold

DeWandelaar

LouBelle

designs

Mr Fool

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