A Different View of "Peace and Security"

by Bobcat 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Bobcat

  Since the WT this week has the prediction of a "Peace and Security" event, I thought I would include a comment from the New American Commentary (NAC, D. Michael Martin, pp.159-60) on 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 3.

  Here is the WT's position, according to this week's WT study (Sep 2012 study edition, pp.3 4):

  1 Th 5:2, 3 is a "future development."

  It happens "just before that day of Jehovah."

  "World leaders will be saying" it.

  It "may refer to one event or to a series of events."

  "Nations may think that they are close to solving some of their big problems."

  The "religious leaders" may "join the political leaders" in this cry.

  The "Peace and Security" cry "will indicate that Jehovah's day is to begin."

  I'm sure others can come up with some of the Society's history of claims regarding this passage, but I wanted to highlight this commentary's very reasoned comments as a contrast:

  Only unbelievers will be taken by suprise by the fact of the Lord's return. The clause "while people are saying, 'peace and safety' " is not a prediction of a particular time in human history so much as a prediction of an attitude. 102 The words need not describe idyllic times but arrogant or self-deceived people. They are like the prophets and priests who disputed Jeremiah's warnings of impending destruction and cried "peace, peace" when in fact Babylon was about to destroy the city (Jer6:14). . . . These are people who tell themselves they are secure and in control. They are not expecting God to invade their world.

  The footnote numbered "102" is equally interesting:

  The use of hotan ["whenever" or "while"] plus the present tense legosin ["are saying"] also indicates that Paul was thinking generally of the character of people, not of a particular end-time event for which the aorist would be more appropriate.

  Note: Bracketed material in footnote is mine, for clarity. So is italics. If legosin were in the aorist tense, it would be translated "had said" or "have said" or something similar, thus, pointing to a particular point in time, an event.

  Your thoughts welcome
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  Vidiot

  Hedging their bets.

  If the planet descended into chaos, the WTS would claim they were the lifeboat.

  If the planet achieved some semblance of "world peace", the WTS could say "See? Toldja so! It's really really really close, now."
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  Theocratic Sedition

  I've always viewed this verse as being in harmony with the thief in the night verse, or even the verse about as in the days of Noah. When they say peace and security, the writer was talking about a certain outlook in life. Eating and drinking as in Noah's day, not taking any note, getting married as if everything is all hunky dory. Peter's letter mocking those saying everything is just as the days of our forefathers comes to mind too.
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  Bobcat

  TS:

  I had the same verses in mind also (Luke 17:26-30 and 2Pet 3:3-7?).

  During WWII and the lead up to it, the "Peace and Security" cry was to be when dictatorial governments succeeded in driving all of JWs underground. That idea fell apart when democratic governments won.

  The current WT teaching on it is basically worthless. It is nothing but speculation ("World leaders", a "cry", "one or a series of events"). Going by the WT view, even believers will never know when the "cry" is until the "sudden destruction" takes place afterwards. Then they will be able to look back and say, "Ah, that was the cry of peace and security!" Thus, the WT view gives no advantage for the believer over the unbeliever, since he also would see things correctly then too.

  Take Care
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  Healthworker

  Hi, there! Ray mentioned that argument in his book; in search of Christian freedom. Sounds better than the WT understanding. Also, believeing that the harlot is false religion is just a product of rutherfords hate after he was jailed.

  Love Healthworker
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  Vidiot

  Theocratic Sedition - "Peter's letter mocking those saying 'everything is just as the days of our forefathers' comes to mind too."

  Ironically, Peter was right to mock that attitude, though probably not for the reason he thought.

  Things are actually better now than in the days of our forefathers.
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  Vidiot

  Bobcat - "Then they will be able to look back and say, 'Ah, that was the cry of peace and security!'"

  Another irony, considering the WTS has even acknowledged that Biblically, the fulfillment of prophecy is supposed to be only apparent in retrospect.
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  Bobcat

  Vidiot:

  Another irony, considering the WTS has even acknowledged that Biblically, the fulfillment of prophecy is supposed to be only apparent in retrospect.

  That idea (of only understanding in retrospect) flies in the face of the context of 1 Th 5:1-5. In there, Paul contrasts believers, who are not in darkness, with "the rest," who are taken by surprise.

  (1 Thessalonians 5:1-5) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well . . . 4 But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves, 5 for YOU are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.

  But I imagine that that explanation helps cover a multitude of guesses that do not pan out.
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  transhuman68

  According to John Dominic Crossan, there is an altar in a temple near Rome from the time of Augustus with the words "Peace and Security" carved into the side of it (in Latin, of course), and he believes that this is what Paul was referring to in Thessalonians. It's all just history to us now, really.
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  WTWizard

  I see that Peace and Security will take one of two events to really be called. The first is that we get that Agenda 21+, where everyone is enslaved globally and there are no more independent nations. In that event, we will all be working for the Rothschilds and we will be their slaves. Obviously, without spirituality, and with ultra-strict enforcement, no one will be able to go to war again. Rebellion will be squashed by slaughtering whoever started it.

  The other way is Father Satan to finally liberate mankind. Wars will be for useful purposes, and once they are settled, they are settled for good. People will segregate themselves according to preferred culture, climate for which they are optimized, and whatever other conditions they are suited for--and then be left alone to live that culture without interference from or to other cultures. Everyone will be allowed and encouraged to develop their own souls, depending on themselves, and ultimately to be as Gods themselves. You will not see stupid things such as racial strife (they are minding their own business instead of ramming their cultures down everyone else's throats) or religion (the bad religions, the ones that have to force themselves on everyone, are gone). Peace and security, under Satan, develops. Of course, the filthy angels, and Jehovah himself, need to be bound or they will simply plant another cult of people to meddle and tyrannize mankind again as they did before.