January 2013 Watchtower. Interesting comment re 6000 years

by alanv 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    cobaltcupcake - "I remember something about creative days not necessarily being of uniform, 7000-year length. Can't remember if that was in a talk or in the Washtowel, but it stuck in my mind as an explanation of the age of the earth itself. That first creative day could've been millions of years long."

    I heard some rumblings in that direction back in the late 90s/early 00s, but it was quashed pretty quick by the older hard-liners.

    Knowing what I now do about Jaracz's reign and his crackdown on the more liberal elements at Bethel after 9-11, that quashing doesn't surprise me at all.

  • panhandlegirl
    panhandlegirl

    Is that a direct quote from the WT or the Weekly Reader (children's periodical for you whipper-snappers)?

    Are you saying that schools no longer have the Weekly Reader? What else has gone down the drain!

    PHG

  • processor
    processor

    was I a complete heretic

    No. Current doctrine is that the "creative days" may have lasted "considerable lengths of time." (Was Life Created, p. 26) " The Bible’s creative days allow for thousands of years of time each. Further, the earth was already in existence before the creative days began." (Awake! Jun 8 2002, p. 10)

  • kepler
    kepler

    Abel speaking to us today...

    What language did he speak, by the way? Did Adam and/or Eve teach him? Where did they learn theirs?

    According to the account Adam started talking with God in chapter two before Eve was brought about.

    But in chapter one Adam and Eve are not named; nor do they say a thing. They are simply directed by God to be fruitful and to multiply to fill the Earth - not the Garden - and chapter one ends with the completion of the sixth day.

    In chapter two, the second sentence indicates that God rested (?) on the seventh day, but then goes on to detail a number of discrepancies with the account that preceded - and describes all over again how the first woman was "formed" vs. "created", in a sequence of events different than chapter one and with differing implications as well. She is named Woman, but that is changed to Eve in chapter 3. Two individuals are now confined to a garden.

    In chapter three, Eve meets a clever talking snake with a reputation throughout the garden.

    Adam never meets the snake, but he is persuaded by Eve to eat fruit of the tree. After that Eve and Adam sense the footsteps of God in the garden and know that they are in trouble. God curses the snake among all animals. God tells the woman that childbirth will include intense pain ( bringing us back to Abel...) and Adam will become a subsistence farmer. That's when Adam names his wife Eve.

    After making clothing for Adam and Eve, God says, "Now that the man has become like one of us (???!!) in knowing good from evil, ..." God not only speaks in the editorial we, but goes so far as to say "one of US". What am I to think when the term Elohim is used?

    There is much more about this in chapter 18, but I recall Fred Franz testifying in court that there is absolutely no evidence of the Trinity within sacred scriptures. Was he ignorant, a liar or both?

    In chapter four, Cain is first born and follows his father's profession, tiller of the soil. A new concept is introduced - shepherd - and despite what is said to Adam in the previous chapters, the Lord is favorably disposed toward Abel's activity therein. The Lord likes Abel's offerings better than Cain's, so much so that Cain decides to do away with Abel, certainly reducing the genealogical pool we are aware of thus far.

    As far as I can tell, Abel has no speaking part in this drama. He does bring the firstborn of his flock, which does establish a dangerous precedent in Canaan. Abraham responded to the Lord's call in this regard with respect to Isaac, but other patriarchs who heeded these calls later invoked the Lord's wrath.

    The story of the snake and its nature is dropped until the epistles of Paul. And in speaking of redemption, he makes no mention of third parties such as snakes and the woman Eve. One suspects that certain apocalyptic movements act as the snake's intermediary, however, in emphasizing the dualistic nature of the cosmos.

    Toward the end of chapter four, Adam through intercourse with his wife is allowed to replace Abel with Seth "since Cain had killed him". There are wives in abundance available for the sons of Adam, however, since a son was born to Seth who was named Enoch. The last line of the chapter, ambiguously states that "This man was the first to invoke the "Name". Seth or Enoch?

    In chapter five, the narrator seems to rely for details on chapter one in its account of Adam's origins, though Adam is not named in chapter one.

    So, you are directed to consider the words to us across the centuries, but did we ever even read his words? In this regard, Abel's words are similar to many other matters brought to our attention in the first book of the Bible. We are in the hands of hypnotists who suggest what we are supposed to hear and see.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Probably, since the WTS thinks Abel might have died close to the age of 100 years, and the reference is regarding his death, plus they are dating his death close to the time when Adam was 130 years of age, then even if 6000 years expired c. 1975, we have not reached 130 years after 1975 yet, which would expire in 2105. So from that point of view, based on the guestimated time of Abel's death, they can say he has been dead close to 60 centuries (6000 years), and thus less than 6000 years.

    CHRONOLOGY NOTE: But the 6000 years is a subject that Witnesses can't touch since they think it expired in 1975 and the millennium didn't begin. When you use the strict Bible timeline and date the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE as does Martin Anstey and others, then the Exodus falls in 1386 BCE, 127 years later than when the WTS dates the Exodus in 1513 BCE, the date they use to date back to the creation of Adam. So just based on that, 6000 years of man's existence would not end until 2102. That means the concept that the millennium will be a sabbath period in relation to the 7000-year Creative Day still can be applied when you have the correct timeline. Otherwise, it is contradicted when it ends in 1975.

    The Persians added 82 years of fake Persian history to their timeline between the 1st of Cyrus and the 1st of Artaxerxes III. But we now have sufficient references to know where to precisely remove these extra 82 years and recover the original timeline which dates the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE and the Exodus, 19 jubilees earlier to 1386 BCE (19 x 49 = 931; 931 + 455 = 1386 BCE), 127 years later than where the WTS currently, but mistakenly dates that event.

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