Thomas Fowler (1869) states the paradox as follows: "Epimenides the Cretan says, 'that all the Cretans are liars,' but Epimenides is himself a Cretan; therefore he is himself a liar. But if he be a liar, what he says is untrue, and consequently the Cretans are veracious; but Epimenides is a Cretan, and therefore what he says is true; saying the Cretans are liars, Epimenides is himself a liar, and what he says is untrue. Thus we may go on alternately proving that Epimenides and the Cretans are truthful and untruthful." [1]
Epimenides paradox: "Epimenides The Cretan Says, "All Cretans are Liars"
by frankiespeakin 39 Replies latest jw friends
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sir82
Thus we may go on alternately proving that Epimenides and the Cretans are truthful and untruthful
Not too different from the governing body alternately proving and disproving what a generation is, or what the faithful and discreet slave is, or whether the Sodomites will be resurrected, or whether blood fraction X is acceptable, or....
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King Solomon
Being able to deliver a good paradox was taken as wisdom in ancient times, eg “So the last shall be first, and the first last” (Matt 20:16). “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it” (Mark 8:35). “Everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:14b). “It is more blessed to give than to receive” (Acts 20:35b). The meek share inherit the Earth, the rich man and Lazarus parable, etc.
Lotta that topsy-turvy, turn-about logic in the ancient world; conditions may change, but people are people....
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Leolaia
It can even destroy androids.
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frankiespeakin
Titus 1:12-14:
12 One of the Cretans, [ a ] a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” [ b ] 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth.
I see Paul had a different version of the same paradox.
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King Solomon
Leo, so when a computer seizes up and requires a hard reboot, are you saying that it actually encountered an insurmountable paradox couldn't be resolved? Maybe it wouldn't happen if I had a more-robust processor than a 286!
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frankiespeakin
Self-refuting idea:
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Farkel
Along the same lines, there are statements which if they are true they MUST be false and if they are FALSE they must be true.
"This statement is false" is one example.
For that statement to be true it MUST be false, and if that statement is false, it HAS to be true.
Yet another dilemma, eh?
Farkel
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Leolaia
Maybe. I hate those danged C++ logical errors, btw.
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Eustace
Epimenides didn't say that every word out of a Cretan's mouth was a lie, only that all Cretans are liars.
You can be a liar and still tell the truth from time to time.
There, I solved a paradox that has wracked the minds of theologians for millenia.