Fantastic quote on jwfacts Sparlock article

by cedars 115 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cedars
    cedars

    Hi everyone

    I'm not sure how long it's been up, but jwfacts has written his own article discussing the Sparlock debacle - and it's a great piece of work.

    Here is the link...

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/sparlock.php

    In the article he uses a fantastic quote from a 1994 Awake! magazine which reads as follows...

    "What about toys based on popular fairy-tale or science-fiction characters? Such stories generally deal with the triumph of good over evil. Some parents thus view the ‘magical elements’ in these tales as simple flights of a childish imagination and see no harm in letting their children enjoy them. Others may fear that the stories could stimulate an interest in the occult. (Deuteronomy 18:10-13) Without judging others, parents must make their own decisions in this regard, considering the effects such stories—and any toys based on them—have on their children." (Awake 1994, 9/8, page 9)

    Yes, apparently there was a time in the history of the Writing Department when calmer and more reasonable heads prevailed. This illustrates perfectly that the material in the Society's publications is steadily becoming more extreme, with less and less room for flexibility in how principles are to be interpreted.

    I take my hat off to Paul for finding this. It put a smile on my face!

    Cedars

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    It has been said Jim Jones started off in a reasonable manner before he went all crazy

    The writin' is clearly on the wall. But the Witnesses don't see the message

  • God_Delusion
    God_Delusion

    Damn, Paul beat me to it....again.

    I remember that Awake! article very well.

    The bit about Caleb's mum scrubbing the floor and then changing into a dress for Family Worship was well spotted too.

    Regards,
    Jaymes
    JWB

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    Yes, Cedars, thanks for the link. The above is a good quote from 1994.

    Obviously the "GB" received "new light" regarding toys and they were duty bound. It was necessary to warn parents and frighten young children, as this is lifesaving work.

    Parents must be warned that children with imaginations and thinking abilities are not to be tolerated by Jehovah.

    Remember, playing with a wizard toy or watching wizardry of any sort will feed the child's imagination and will help them to recognize that there's only a MAN ( 8 MEN) behind the (WTS) curtain.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    playing with a wizard toy or watching wizardry of any sort_____RIP

    LOL RIP The ASL video about the magic of masterbation should not be watched

  • NVR2L8
    NVR2L8

    MMarked

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Every now and then you read something that strikes one as reasonable like that 1994 awake. Some writer who cared about the unintended consequences of going overboard with a policy.

    But they always get bumped aside by the toadies in the writing department who are all in competition for a head nod from the GB. So those slackers sit at their desk and dream shit up that they try to get printed. This is the Freddy Franz model on how to become a biggie at the Wt. If they get their idiot idea into a publication they have bragging rights for a week! Any unintended consequences....they don't care. 67% percent of born-in's leaving.........no problem. Sparlock is part of a system of perpetual callous indifference towards the rank and file..........and especially their families.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    The article from 1994 Awake strikes me as reasonable, in that it leaves the issue of children playing with "magical toys" as a conscience matter, which each JW parent must decide for themselves for their children.

    So where's the proof that the JW policy has changed away from that? It's certainly not found in the Sparlock DVD, itself: what you see is a JW Mom who exercises HER conscience in the matter, probing Caleb's beliefs to see if he thinks the toy is magic; he said "yes", and she decided.

    Granted, what Caleb's mom DIDN'T do was explain to Caleb that the toy ISN'T magic, and in fact, there is NO such thing as magic. However, that is NOT a part of JW eschatology: I don't need to tell anyone here that JWs DO believe magic exists as the work of the Devil: that's part of the JW spiel. Not my beliefs, of course, but they DO enjoy the right to believe the Moon is made of cream cheese, under the protection of freedom of religious expression afforded by the U.S. Constitution.

    But when I see Cedars say:

    This illustrates perfectly that the material in the Society's publications is steadily becoming more extreme, with less and less room for flexibility in how principles are to be interpreted.

    No, it doesn't illustrate that perfectly. Speaking purely from a logical standpoint, Cedars failed to PROVE the assertion of ANY official policy change, such as the WT saying "We forbid playing with magic toys". If that WERE true, where's the evidence to back the claim of "WTBTS steadily becoming more extreme"? It's absent, because it doesn't exist.

    The Sparlock video DOES graphically depict their stance on magic, as applied to an imaginary scenario of Caleb: the Sparlock video is simply depicting the policy stated in 1994 Awake. But to claim it's evidence of a "position shift" away from, or an example of "hard-lining" on the stance? Nonsense. That's poppycock.

    So once again, we have a straw-man position of the WT that is simply fallacious, and the charge doesn't stick (at least for anyone who's willing to analyze the situation with a calm, rational analysis). Another over-reach, a logic FAIL...

    Cedars, you'd do well to consider the calm, balanced and rational approach that is used by jwfact.org: they doesn't over-state the facts for the sake of dramatic effect, engage in straw-manning, hyperbole, etc. Just a plain presentation of the facts in an unbiased manner, letting the readers decide for themselves (I know! Facts are SOOOOO BORING...). But to spin and create strawmen insults the intelligence of the readers, and is disengenous.

    The facts, the TRUTH, about the WTBTS are damning enough on their own; they don't need "writer's embellishment" to bolster them to be any more damaging to the WT (posters like Blondie know that providing THEIR OWN WORDS suffices; no need to over-state).

    HOWEVER, any such attempts to deceive readers certainly DOES undermine the credibility of those who'd challenge, but see, it's not just YOU: it undermines the credibility of all of ALL WT critics, like Blondie and jwfacts.org. You make it easier to dismiss THEM (just like the guy posting WT Illuminati and claiming subliminal images in WT similarly damaged the credibility of the site, and not just them).

    Oh, Cedars, please avoid the torrential ad-hominem-filled diatribe: I didn't write this for your sake (I know you don't get it), as much as to try and show lurkers on the fence that some posters here ARE actually concerned with facts and logic, and not willing to use "no holds barred" rants and rhetorical slight-of-hand fallacies to deceive them.

  • cedars
    cedars

    KS - Thanks for offering your opinion. It's a shame you're the one and only poster on this forum whose opinion I am not interested in.

    The reason for this, as you well know, is your scathing and unprovoked attack on me on the ASL thread in which you intimidated me, criticized my anti-Watchtower activism, and generally attempted to discredit and character-assassinate me. You also made remarks about shunning which I found offensive.

    After that little episode, on almost every thread I have started you have attempted to bully, provoke or generally harrass me - even though I've made it clear on multiple occassions that I'm not interested in your opinion or entering into a dialogue with you on any subject.

    It is my right to decide who I have discussions with on this forum or anywhere else, and unfortunately people who have a clear agenda against me are pretty low on my list of people to converse with.

    You must have very little going on in your life if all you can do is focus your anger and frustration on me at any opportunity. I'm not sure it's a healthy obsession - you may want to get that looked into.

    Anyway, I've said it before but I'll say it again - I'M NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION. Hopefully eventually the message will sink in. I won't hold my breath.

    Cedars

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    "But to claim it's evidence of a "position shift" away from, or an example of "hard-lining" on the stance? Nonsense. That's poppycock."

    No it's not poppycock......the WT in the DVD did not take the balanced approach of the 94 Awake....... it did not say:

    Such stories generally deal with the triumph of good over evil. Some parents thus view the ‘magical elements’ in these tales as simple flights of a childish imagination and see no harm in letting their children enjoy them. Others may fear that the stories could stimulate an interest in the occult. (Deuteronomy 18:10-13) Without judging others, parents must make their own decisions in this regard, considering the effects such stories—and any toys based on them—have on their children." (Awake 1994, 9/8, page 9)

    What the Starlock DVD did was show that there is no longer room for a parent to make their own decision concerning their child. Now there is an OFFICAL WT position to take. This was a tutorial on how to guilt trip a five year old(?) into obedience over a child's silly toy. One that would lead to the correct outcome (throwing the toy in the garbage) as well as a demonstration how obedience in this matter is also expected of the parents.

    "This illustrates perfectly that the material in the Society's publications is steadily becoming more extreme, with less and less room for flexibility in how principles are to be interpreted."

    Exactly.

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