WTS "New Light" on Great Crowd

Amazing

I posted this 28 minutes after someone beat me to it. I missed Stevie1's post because when I looked it was in the "Belief's and Doctrine" section. Sorry for the goof. Please refer back to his thread at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=23566&site=3

Fredhall

Amazing,

Already, I'm in heaven.

LittleToe

Seems to me they are running out of courtyards.
The argument makes no logical sense, from a borg that prides itself on having all the reasonable answers, regardless of scriptual fact.

Eric

This exact same subject was posted here by stevieb1 just a few hours ago and the responses can be viewed at:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=23567&site=3

Eric

WildTurkey

Sounds like they are doing their little preparation work, to change some teaching. Maybe, because of all the proof of so many first century Christians, they will say that both classes started filling up at the same time. This will help them with that 144, number.

Joseph Joachim

if they move the Great Crowd anymore, they will be back to Russell's teaching that the two 'classes' live in heaven

They will never do that, for two reasons: first, most of the success of the WT religion, IMO, is due to their promising everlasting life on Earth, a niche that is not exploited by any other christian sect; second, a clear distinction between the two classes has to be maintained, because the GB needs to back up its claims of authority and they cannot resort to apostolic succession like the Pope.

I agree with Wild Turkey; I think the whole issue is a smoke screen. The real issue being that they need to validate the "new annointed" some way or another, because very shortly the GB will be almost entirely composed of people born after 1935. And they would have to admit that Jeho-bah has been doing a lousy job selecting the annointed, if the number is not yet "sealed" because continuous replacements had been needed for about 70 years. The easiest way out of this is to say that both classes of Christians had been selected "in parallel" during these two millenia, not one after the other as they now believe, and that the 144000 are not yet selected, and for that reason "the end" has not come.

What they do with articles like this is to draw attention to the text in a non-traumatic way, little by little, giving the impression that "the light is getting brighter". Whithin a year hence, the real doctrinal change will come.

Remember that they used the same strategy in 1994/1995 with the "this generation" issue.

TD

Hi Amazing,

Maybe I just need to go back and have another cup of coffee, but I'm having trouble with reason #5. I understand why (from their point of view) it may make any supposed parallel with Herod’s temple inappropriate, but I don't see how it ultimately supports the “great crowd” doctrine itself. Reason #5 actually seems to be a direct about-face from what was said on the subject in 1980.

Does it make any sense to you?

Tom

Defender

This is an interesting article. It is about time, the Society comes clean on distinguishing the difference between (Gr. naos) and (Gr. heiron). Although, they have still not gone far enough. In order to maintain the two class Christians teaching, they continue to twist scriptures out of context.

the Greek word (naos') translated "temple" in John's vision of the great crowd is more specific. In the context of the Jerusalem temple, it usually refers to the Holy of Holies, the temple building, or the temple precincts.

Yes, the word naos is more specific and according to NWT translations refers to the sanctuary or the Holy of Holies, where only priests could enter and serve.

Members of the great crowd exercise faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice. They are spiritually clean, having "washed their robe and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Hence, they are declared righteous with a view to becoming friends of God and of surviving the great tribulation.

Note the Society's use of the term "with a view to becoming friends of God" So, although they have supposedly put faith in Jesus Christ and washed their robes with the blood of Christ, they are NOT considered Sons of God, not even friends to God, yet. They are in a position of "in view of becoming friends of God".

I am unable to reconcile this teaching with what Paul said in Galatians 3:26 "You are ALL, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus."

In many ways, they are like proselytes in Israel who submitted to the Law covenant and worshipped along with the Israelites.

The great crowd are not said to be worshipping in the "naos", no, they are mentioned as rendering SACRED SERVICE in the "naos". There is a difference and the Society is playing with words to obscure the facts.

Of course, these proselytes did not serve in the inner courtyard, where the priests performed their duties. And members of the great crowd are not in the inner courtyard of Jehovah's great spiritual temple, which courtyard represents the condition of perfect, righteous human sonship of the members of Jehovah's "holy priesthood" while they are on earth.

Yes, proselytes did not serve in the inner courtyard, nor did they serve in the outer couryard for that matter, but the great crowd is rendering sacred service in the "naos" which the article itself describes as referring to the Holy of Holies. Who can serve in the Holy of Holies?

Again the Society tries to equate the condition of the great crowd with that of the early proselytes, as if Christ never came. It is turning the clock backward.

The great crowd mentioned in Revelations are said to be standing before the throne of God, rendering sacred service in his temple sanctuary or Holy of Holies because of their faith in Jesus Christ. Certainly, the condition of these members of the great crowd no where resembles that of the early proselytes of Israel.

Amazing

Hi All: I will come back and respond in detail to some excellent comments. Eric, I did look to see if ths was posted, but must have missed the earlier post.

Joachim: Regartding the paradise earth you said, "a niche that is not exploited by any other christian sect;"

Oh contrare mo capitan! Just start with a much larger group, the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, akak Moooooorrrrman! There are numerous Christina sects that expliot the earthly paradise ... what I agree is unique to JWs is that theiur primary focus is on earth.

LyinEyes

Thanks for the new info from the wt mags, I am hoping to get my hands on this one!!! I have a friend that will get it for me, that person is still in and this is mind blowing!!!!!!!!!! When I first started questioning wt teaching , I also started reading the Bible on my own , and that teaching about the great crowd did not jive with what I was reading in Rev. myself . Here they ( borg) go again, making another change , new light , liers!!!! I cant keep up with all
the mistakes they have made about prophecy but it is sickening !!!

WTS "New Light" on Great Crowd

Share this