Irish slaves: the forgotten history of slavery in the New World

by King Solomon 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    The Bible, OT & NT, certainty doesn't prohibit the most basic of human civil rights, freedom from slavery. Of course, the Bible was used to justify the ownership of slaves in America, as in many other lands.

    An often-forgotten footnote in the history of America is that there was a time when poor white Irish were imported from Ireland to be sold as slaves during the 17th and 18th century. In fact, their worth was considered even lower than that of black slaves, who often fetched a price 10x that of an Irish slave!

    Market forces being what they are, some slave owners engaged in breeding "designer slaves", when black "studs" were mated with Irish women to create offspring that fetched a higher price (as mulattos).

    Here's the full story:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31076

    I share this, as you may encounter some who do not recognize the intrinsic evil of a certain practice (such as slavery; they may even try to argue to DEFEND the Bible's stance), until they consider that it may have happened to THEIR ancestors.

    Many racists will find the thought of a black man "defiling" a white women as abhorrent; this tends to make those harboring racist mind-sets to re-evaluate which of their cherished beliefs they wish to protect: their racism, or their Bible (which condones slavery, including such things as above). They cannot have both.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Hi. I am a civil rights lawyer. My goal in going to school was to become a movement lawyer or work for the Civil Rights Divsion of Justice. I ended up on Wall St. but still do pro bono work. This fact is obscured. Of course, they were not legally slaves but they were de facto slaves. I believe the term is indentured servant. Watching Daniel Boone on TV growing up (my age is showing), I thought all indentured servants suffered a small amount of time and then had a wonderful life as Rebecca Boone seemed to have on the show.

    Only a few years ago I read a book on Slavery by the leading academic in the country who teaches at Yale. Indentured servants had such restrictions in their indenture contracts that they often became perpetual slaves with even fewer rights than black slaves. Certainly, in common parlance, we would classify them as slaves. Most were children.

    The Abolitionist movement prospered better in England than in the United States. One of the primary objections to the Englsih abolitionisment was that, in reality, the life's of factory workers, and especially children in factories, was far worse than Southern slavery. I can't recall the details but such workers rarely had food, saw little sunlight, and lived in hovels. Progressive British people thought it was better to fix the immediate problems at home than bother with the Atlantic Slave trade.

    I assume that literacy was very hard to achieve for these workers. The problem was not only with Irish workers, altho they prob. were the majorty. Native English born people could readily end up in such a system.

    The author said that slavery has always existed. No one alive today is not a descendant of both slaves owners and slaves. The Atlantic Slave Trade was so bad, though, b/c for the first time in history, race was tied to a property classification.In his view, slavery was an equal opportunity property status in the past.

    I suspect that most Irish people today would be shocked to know about this period. Indeed, my American legal history taiught us about basic common law civil rights by comparing the situation with another colony, Ireland. The Irish never had a chance. It was so brutal. Irish lawyers were executed with their clients. John Adams, co-drafter of the Declaration of Independence, our first v-p, second president, ambassador to France and England, served as a full common lawyer when he represented the English soldiers involved in the so-called Boston Massacre. Americans viewed themselves as English citizens and demanded what they perceived as their full const'l rights afforded English citizens. Our General Assemblies were allowed to flourish, without interference from England for many decades. The idea of a general assembly in Ireland was a joke. I remain so moved by these stories decades after the time I first learned the information.

    Growing up, I thought that Ireland were a separate state of England, sort of as in Ohio is a separate than New York but part of America. Gaellic was brutally surpressed. Irish sports were suppressed. The utter brutality shocked me.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Ya, this info came up on a topic last year. I think it's fascinating. Slavery in the Americas wasn't so cut-n-dry black & white.

  • VIII
    VIII

    Very interesting. You both gave information I was unaware of. I am going to research this at the library (not Wiki) just for my own information. I am sure the vast majority, if not 99% of Americans are unaware of this.

    King S and BotR, I appreciate both of your efforts to educate us.

  • talesin
    talesin

    It still exists today. Women (gurls), mainly from Eastern European countries, are kidnapped, or lured by the promise of a good job, and then kept as slaves once they arrive. This is done for both the sex trade, and private people who keep these gurls as maids and sexual slaves.

    Also, American/Canadian gurls who go to Japan with promises of teaching English or modelling, are forced into prostitution and cannot escape. Yes, they are naive - so what?

    t

  • dreamgolfer
    dreamgolfer

    Yup, guess what people dont want to talk about, Slavery

    because Thomas Jefferson had them (as he preached the great rights for man) Slept with them, fathered them, and never SET Them FREE! thats a messy kettle of fish.

    But what is truly sad is the 1st case in Virginia of a slave suing for his freedom was denied, and his owner was a Black Free Man.

    I hate to point fingers but it all started by greed - Greedy men in Europe, Greedy Africans in West Africa, Greedy Plantation owners in the World,

    The Irish were first, the african families next and then the greedy Euro moved west and took it all from the Native indians (just like they did in other places all over the world) and we wonder WHY DIDNT GOD STEP in FIX IT!!!! (had to get that jab in)

    It's a Rainy Evening in the NC (and I am stuck in a Hotel for work with nothing on TV)

  • talesin
    talesin

    There have always been slaves, since recorded history.

    It's one of the things that made me realize that our opposable thumbs and so-called 'higher brain power' does NOT make us superior to other animals. Actually, I see humans as less. We are quite base, actually. We torture for pleasure, and are the greediest species on the planet.

    Edit: We also think it's perfectly okay to torture and enslave animals that are not considered 'cute'.

    t

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Thanks for the kind words, all. ;)

    Telesin saiz:

    It still exists today. Women (gurls), mainly from Eastern European countries, are kidnapped, or lured by the promise of a good job, and then kept as slaves once they arrive. This is done for both the sex trade, and private people who keep these gurls as maids and sexual slaves.

    PBS had a Frontline Special on women from ex-Soviet satellite nations being taken down to Turkey, forced to "entertain" foreign workers. Very sad story...

    Dream Golfer saed:

    The Irish were first, the african families next and then the greedy Euro moved west and took it all from the Native indians (just like they did in other places all over the world) and we wonder WHY DIDNT GOD STEP in FIX IT!!!! (had to get that jab in)

    In the ironic twist department:

    Cyrus the Great conquered the Babylonians in 539 BC, and as the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism strictly and explicitly forbade slavery, the practice was not permitted in all conquered lands (this was the first religion to codify the prohibition of slavery, as well as gave equal rights to women, as the first Human Rights Charter). Thus Cyrus the Great freed the captives of the Babylonians, which included the Jews (who were weeping on the banks of the Euphrates until they got the good news that Babylon The Great had fallen).

    So the Jews, God's chosen people, although being amongst the first benefactors of Zoroastrianism's abolitionism, didn't learn from the generosity and mercy shown to them: Jews obviously continued the practice of slavery, and no doubt gaving all the the credit to YHWH for allowing the Zarathushti Cyrus the Great to liberate them.

    Of course, the anti-slavery position of Zoroasterianism made it an opponent of Hinduism, Hellenism, and Islam, Xianity, etc. and we all know how THAT one ended up....

    So remember that little factoid for whenever a Xian claims the Bible contains a moral code that's far superior to any other in the History of Humanity. ;)

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    This Zoroastrian part is fascinating. One of the facts that the author of the slavery book pointed out was that no one had clean hands. Countless slaves escaped or earned their freedom. So many legal records show that almost immediately after earning freedom and enough money to purchase a slave, they did so.

    I wish I could recall the name of the book, Perhaps it was titled Slavery. It opened my eyes. He even talked about Uncle Tom types. What accomodations would we make to such a system? Uncle Toms were villified in the 1960s. I can recal the fury about their role. What if you already had an established family and responsiblity, though. Do you run at a chance for personal freedom or feed your children and wife, who will be severely punished if you escape?

    Another tidbit that absolutely fascinated me is that were very few slave revolts in the United States. The number of African slaves was so great with only a handful of whites. Violence would have solved the issue. Academics reconstruct slave uprisings, which was the worst fear of any white Southerner. No one knows why there were not more uprisings. Records prove conclusively that the literate house slaves were usually the revolt leaders b/c they had a savviness from seeing white society. These revolts were usually not spontaneous uprising but meticulously planned. No one knows to this day how word traveled from plantation to plantation so quickly when travel passes were rare. Scholars feel an established African system was in place. Events happened so quickly that even fast riders could not have spread the news so quickly.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Look up census records for your ancestors from the 1800's and you will see servants attached to wealthier households. I found many. I noted that often the servant was a relative (I assume, poorer?) and family legend says some were illegitimate offspring. More gratifying is to see the younger ones listing their occupation as "scholar" so perhaps they got an education alongside their cousins.

    Rural Canadian families took in thousands of Irish orphans from the disastrous potato famine around 1850. I am sure some were mistreated, but in many cases it was an act of charity.

    See also Home Children, 1870 to 1939.

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