Hi,
May I quote from the Simpsons, when asked in a symposium as to any questions that could not be answered it was in the Xenia warrior princess episode, a wizard did it, no more questions!!!!!
Best Regards,
Star Tiger
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One 754 Replies latest watchtower bible
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simon17
Christians have the worst "answer" to do this of all the world's religions. At least in Hinduism reincarnation means that the suffering of animals is a punishment for those who were bad in previous, higher incarnations or as a means to earn higher incarnations in later lives. In Islam, god created evil intentionally in a way that is not inherently logically inconsistent (but does seem to make him seem like a bit of a jerk). Christians though, really have no answer at all.
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cofty
I have yet to see a christian seriously attempt to answer to this question. For reasons given above "the fall" just won't do.
I find it odd that christians claim that the natural world was made by their god and yet you rarely find any that have more than a passing interest in it. Maybe it makes them uncomfortable to get too close to the reality of it.
Even as a loyal JW elder I came to the conclusion that animals would always behave exactly as they do now and that the paradise pictures were demeaning nonsense. Looking back it was the first signs of "independent thinking" TM
Did anybody really think god made cheetahs able to run at 60mph so they could be first to the best grazing?
"Predators seem beautifully "designed to catch prey animals, while the prey animals seem equally beautifully designed to escape them. Who's side is god on?" - Jerry Coyne
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maksym
Dear QuietOne,
I'm no theologion but I think this makes basic sense for the framework. To flush this out it would need a deeper study of The Fall and it's consequences.
Genesis 3:17 tells us that the ground was cursed in which Adam was to work. It is important to remember that The Fall came about with great consequences. Man’s dominion in the Paradise was to care for the earth. The earth was to be cared for and all the animals that were under the guidance of Adam. Adam, (namely mankind) was placed in charge and by his spiritual blessings bestowed upon by God he had the ability to create a world in which there would be no pain and suffering for the creatures or harm to the earth.
Man is responsible for creation in the sense that as it is his sin which causes the suffering of creation;man sins, creation groans;- so in some unseen way our struggle in Christ vs sin also affects the creation in a larger positive way.
Eastern Orthodox Christian belief shares the western idea of original sin. In the Orthodox view, all of creation, living and dead, visible and invisible, are holistically connected. What affects one creature affects all creatures. Therefore, the suffering and mortality imposed on Adam and Eve as punishment for their sin is shared by all of creation.
Animals and all of creation groans and suffers because of the Fall. Although animals do not sin they suffer just as much as natural creation suffers because both the Earth and everything in it is intrinsically connected.
For those that only believe in a naturalistic man; namely that by our physical powers we can affect the earth this argument does not hold much weight. However, it is the spiritual man that has been given the grace of God who can wield goodness back into creation. That grace was lost after the Fall.
There are examples in the Bible in which Saints performed miracles upon creation, as well as in our modern times both to the good of animals and nature. All these things came about by a spiritual blessing on the individual in which it further transformed itself on creation.
In Christ,
Maksym -
tec
Makeysm, thank you for that. Very interesting.
Peace to you,
Tammy
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ziddina
"Man is responsible for creation in the sense that as it is his sin which causes the suffering of creation;man sins, creation groans;- so in some unseen way our struggle in Christ vs sin also affects the creation in a larger positive way. ..." Maksym
Oi yi yi yi, but Maksym's post totally ignores the fact that extremely ancient forms of life - that predate humans by millions of years - show clear evidence of predation - predators and prey existed VERY early in the fossil records, from the Cambrian era [540 million years ago] to our modern world of lions, tigers and bears...
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/prehistoric-world/cambrian/
http://bjo.bmj.com/content/88/2/164.full
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/07/anomalocaris-sharp-eyes-predator/
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The Quiet One
Thanks ziddina.. I'd never considered that angle. Mind you, the only experience/knowledge I have in relation to fossils is that I've watched Jurassic Park, lol! Just thinking, I recall once raising the issue of parasites that feed off creatures from the inside etc to a Jw... Their reply was to shrug and say "Well, that's the way Jehovah made them". End of conversation..
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ziddina
Yer welcome, The Quiet One...
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maksym
Dear Quiet One,
In the end it is where we choose to put our faith. Some choose to put it into certain theories, philosophies, or hypothesis and others look to God and the Bible for answers.
