How to get around 2 John 9-11

by WildeLover 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • WildeLover
    WildeLover

    hi all

    i have a query about this section of scripture that deals with shunning and DFing according to the washtowel, bile and trash society.

    i tried to speak to a friend on this. and she came back at me with this and i was stumped.

    if i commit a sin against God and am DFed, theni have grossly offended him. thus JWs as friends of God would shun me as i have wronged God.

    she used the analogy of her and her husband. if her husband committed adultery and left her, would i speak to him if i saw him. in order to show support for her and our friendship and the fact that he was wrong, i would ignore him.

    that part makes sense to me. i was stumped on that one and couldnt get round it.

    any thoughts guys?

    cheers

    WildeLover

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    John 8
    1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

    2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

    9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    11 “No one, sir,” she said.

    “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    You can't get around it. If someone wants to interpret a scripture in a certain way, you waon't change their mind. You just have to remember the bible is BS and can be used to say anything you want.

  • finally awake
    finally awake

    The failure in that analogy is the assumption that a person only gets disfellowshipped for offending God. I'm sure that plenty of people here can attest to the fact that people get disfellowshipped for things that couldn't possibly offend a rational God. I'm no fan of adultery, but I don't know that I would cut off all contact with my child if he turned out to be a cheating bastard, no matter how much I felt he had wronged my daughter in law.

  • WildeLover
    WildeLover

    thanks guys.

    Mrs Jones- you are so right but Jesus is not sth that many JWs take into consideration.

    however, they would say that the adulterous woman was repentant.

    Cantleave- i suppose it frustrated me that i couldnt reaosn with her. in my heart i know shunning is wrong but i couldnt fault her reasoning

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    The New Testament has more than enough authoritarian and repressive stuff in it for high control groups like JWs to use it to justify their practices. I reject JW teachings and the Bible, they are as bad as each other.

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    mrsjones5 read my mind. But it won't matter as JW Shunning is not about living according to Christian or Bible principles. It's about doing what the WTBTS says.

    00DAD

  • 2tone
    2tone

    the flood never happened so the rest of the bible is false.

  • Ding
    Ding

    Mrsjones is right.

    How did Jesus treat people who opposed him?

    Granted, he rebuked the Pharisees, but they were the ones claiming to speak for God who enslaved them with rules and regulations and the fear of man. It's not the WT "apostates" who are doing that...

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    From jwfacts.com

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php

    2 John 10

    Watchtower extreme treatment of not even saying "hello" to a disfellowshipped Witnesses is not based on the above scriptures, but rather on a single statement at 2 John 7-11:

    For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Look out for yourselves, that YOU do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that YOU may obtain a full reward. Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching,never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

    2 John is referring to the antichrist and should not be applied across the board to all forms of sin, as done by the Watchtower Society.

    In order to justify their stance, the Watchtower describes those that stop being Witnesses as apostate and of the Antichrist, saying that "the word apostasy comes from a Greek word that literally means a standing away from but has the sense of desertion, abandonment or rebellion ... [and included] abandonment of right moral standards ... willfully abandoning the Christian congregation thereby become part of the 'antichrist." Watchtower 1985 Jul 15 p.31 In reality, many who stop being Witnesses continue to follow Jesus and Bible morals, but have come to believe that the Watchtower Society is not directed by Jesus.

    Interestingly, Johns advice here was not limited to former Christians. It included anyone denying Christ. This included Jews that rejected Jesus and people of the nations worshipping other Gods. Yet the Watchtower stance is to apply this only to Jehovah's Witnesses.

    The meaning of the phrase never receive him into YOUR homes should be understood in the context of the hospitality of first century Jerusalem. Since Christians held congregation meetings in their homes John possibly felt that inviting a denier of Christ into a home could be viewed as sharing worship with non-Christians.

    Likewise the term to never say a greeting to him needs to be understood in light of first century practice. It is wrong for the Watchtower to claims that John used the term a greeting to indicate a simple hello.

    John here used khairo, which was a greeting like good day or hello. (Acts 15:23; Matthew 28:9) He did not use aspazomai (as in verse 13), which means to enfold in the arms, thus to greet, to welcome and may have implied a very warm greeting, even with an embrace. (Luke 10:4; 11:43; Acts 20:1, 37; 1 Thessalonians 5:26) So the direction at 2 John 11 could well mean not to say even hello to such ones.Watchtower 1988 April 15 p.27

    This article claims the word khairo is used to forbid a simple greeting, instead of aspazomai which means a more affectionate embrace, enfolding in the arms, kiss, greeting or welcome. The writer seems to be confused as the very opposite is true. Strongs states;

    • 5463 chairo {khah'-ee-ro} 1) to rejoice, be glad 2) to rejoice exceedingly 3) to be well, thrive 4) in salutations, hail! 5) at the beginning of letters: to give one greeting, salute
    • 783 aspasmos {as-pas-mos} 1) a salutation, either oral or written

    2 John does not indicate a polite greeting is wrong. John here shows that a person is a sharer in the Antichrists wicked works if he shows acceptance and agreement with the evildoers cause or teachings, or wishes them favour and success.

    The Watchtower Society uses this single Scripture in 2 John to dictate that every disfellowshipped or disassociated person should not even be politely greeted. This is applied regardless of what the person was disfellowshipped for, including a long list of Society originated rules such as gambling, smoking, or authorising a blood transfusion. Every single one of a disfellowshipped persons Witness friends is told to never greet them again, unless they repent and are formally reinstated by the Watchtower Society. I am aware of friends whose own mothers or their own children have not spoken to them for upwards of 20 years. Yet such shunning is only ever discussed once, was only to apply to the Antichrist, and as such is being misused to its extremity.

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