Where in the BIble does it say Adultery Must involve Penetration?

by BrendaRob 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Violia
    Violia

    agree james_woods that is twisted reasoning. I ask a boe about that once and they said they had been challenged on this before. I think sometimes if jws would challenge the boe on some of this stuff that is NOT in the Bible , they might see them backtrack. They just make this stuff up as they go. One Congo is a hardliner bunch, the next Congo is liberal. They are not all in agreement and it does matter who you are on the food chain.

    Knew a bro who divorced three jws wives ( in a way he could remarry eg as the innocent party) before he got caught . His fatal mistake, he told his best friend who accidentally let it slip.

    knew a Drama Queen sis 2X adultery and and a remarriage with No announcements. It is who you know.

  • Dagney
    Dagney

    Welcome BrendaRob! So sorry you are going through this.

    I know of an instance close to me where a couple were separated, the husband intimately touched, (so he says), no climax. (so he says), another woman, and the elders said it was porneia and grounds for divorce. He was not DF'd. I was a little shocked, though happy the couple could end the painful thing. I asked several elder friends about it and basically it was up to the discretion of the BOE handling it. It was porneia, or something that would happen in a house of prostitution. I said, "you can have a drink in a house of prostitution, you can pay to just talk in a house of prostitution...you don't have to have intercourse...is that porneia?" They just sighed and shrugged their shoulders.

    So it can vary as you can see from the stories here. Do what it best for you. Seek good legal cousel, do not rely on the elders for that. Show the elders you are in charge of this and sometimes they will back away from domestic issues.

    Best of luck.

  • Violia
    Violia

    The panties you found should have been enough for the elders to really integrate him . If they let that pass- he's one of their buddies.

  • shepherd
    shepherd

    "I lied and told him he gave me VD."

    "Isn't my word enough?"

    Since you lied (even if it was to get him to own up) that demonstrates that a person's word alone is not enough and it should never be enough. Even in the divorce courts you would need to provide more proof than a pair of panties in a bag if he is denying it. A person is deemed innocent until proven guilty even in matters of adultery.

    That does not mean you have to catch him in the act, but it does mean there needs to be a lot of circumstantial evidence.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    What did the motorcycle rider say when his wheel fell off? You picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel. remember the song you picked a fine time to leave me Lucel, by Kenny Rogers?

    H h h. Cute. I got it and almost laughed. Okay, I finally laughed. Ha. Thanks for the levity! I like sick humor like this. Like the one about a boy born with no arms, no legs and no body whose mom would set him on a plate in the window to look at the other kids playing. Then one day wishing so hard, his fairy godmother granted his wish to have a normal body and limbs. He was so happy, he jumped right up and ran across the yard and into the street where he was hit by a Watchtower van. (I had to make this WTS-relevant some way...sorry!) He was instantly killed. So the moral of the story is: Don't get baptized...oh sorry, I mean: Quit while you're a head.

    Sick, I know. But you laughed anyway so what does that say about YOU? tee hee

    LS

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Just another couple of things. Remember Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky? He knew how far to go and even though oral sex is grounds for divorce (i.e. porneia) I think not having intercourse saved face for Hillary and it didn't seem a total betrayal somehow. Plus you avoid pregnancy and all those issues.

    The second thing is a true situation that happened. A teenager came up pregnant and she and her boyfriend claimed they never had sex. I think they checked and saw that she was still a virgin, and she was. The elders had to keep interviewing them in detail, though, until they admitted that they did fool around and climax was achieved. Apparently there was "no penetration" but seiminal fluid in the vacinity of the vagina still ended up getting the girl pregnant. Both were promptly disfellowshipped.

    I posted elsewhere, of course, where at one time, actually up until about 1972, homosexuality was not grounds for divorce, nor bestiality. That was changed later and rightly so. But it underscores even where there is no overt act, the pain of the betrayal is just as bad. You know your mate is in love with someone else and has betrayed you emotionally though not spiritually. The pain and hurt are still there. My heart really goes out to those innocent parties. Jehovah knows the heart though and so while they might get away with it in the congregation, they won't on Judgment Day.

    Another case that seems relevant is a couple I knew where the wife wanted to divorce her husband, so she went out and committed adultery to get a legal divorce. But he didn't want a divorce. He was the innocent partner and it is up to the innocent partner to forgve the infidelity. But the wife, being in the truth a long time, just figured she'd commit adultery, be disfellowshipped for a year or two, then get back in and marry someone else, which she did. So that raises the question as to wether the grounds for divorce were actually met. There was adultery involved, but the innocent party was forgiving.

    Furhter, I'm not asolutely sure, but if a non-believer divorces his believing mate and doesn't remarry or otherwise commit adultery, I'm not sure if the congregation considers her free to remarry in the congregation.

    One more case of trivia regarding divorce was the case of a brother who had been married for like 30 years. He was older. But at some point it was discovered the woman he married and who had been his wife all those years was not legally divorced from her previous husband. When the elders found out, of course, the brother had to move out until she got a legal divorce. But the wife decided she didn't want to do that, apparently she wasn't happy with him and was glad to be free. I find it ironic he had been living in fornication all that time and didn't really know it.

    LS

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    Knew a bro who divorced three jws wives ( in a way he could remarry eg as the innocent party) before he got caught . His fatal mistake, he told his best friend who accidentally let it slip.
    knew a Drama Queen sis 2X adultery and and a remarriage with No announcements. It is who you know.

    I knew a case where a 30 year old elder-pioneer married a 40+ something divorcee (who had no evidence) and it was passed over and the wedding celebrated by the circuit overseers in general.

    I was close to her ex-husbands family and I will just say this - he needed the divorce, badly, but they did everybody wrong on fair enforcement of JW published rules.

  • Violia
    Violia

    Further, I'm not absolutely sure, but if a non-believer divorces his believing mate and doesn't remarry or otherwise commit adultery, I'm not sure if the congregation considers her free to remarry in the congregation

    I bet a lot of us know someone like that. I knew a bro whose wife left him and she had no wish to remarry. He committed adultery with a married jws sis and divorces were issued to all parties. The two adulterers were DF'd and as far as I know the Xwife or X husband never remarried . The two who married were considered to be in a adulterous marriage and he couldn't even handle the mikes . It is way over 20 yrs ago this happened. Also the Congo blames the sis more for the adultery than the man. This is a hardliner Congo .

  • caliber
    caliber

    • First base – mouth to mouth kissing, especially open mouth ("French") kissing involving the tongue.
    • Second base – aggressive stimulation between the neck and waist, usually shirtless or under the shirt.
    • Third base – manual or oral stimulation of the genitalia.
    • Fourth base (Home run) – the act of penetrative intercourse

    third base on is considered porneia .... second base could be considered "loose conduct" serious (which could lead to DF if unrepentant ), but not grounds for divorce

    These things of course don't consider broken trust and hurt which is cheating in some way

    cheating is different things for differenet people here a couple of idea's from the net...

    "I always told my guy friends that, in order to figure out whether or not they're crossing the line with another girl, they need only picture their girlfriend doing the same thing and admit whether or not it would upset them"

    "You don't get to decide what cheating is your partner does "

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