I've been out 18 months thereabouts and once the 'truth' started to unravel I was amazed how quickly it all turned to dust.
Exactly. I can hardly talk to a JW about anything relating to their beliefs anymore. I'm no longer fluent in the language.
JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?
by garyneal 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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outsmartthesystem
GaryNeal - This is exactly the point. There is absolutely no proof that Jesus selected them in 1919. But a witness is trained to BELIEVE it without ever being shown the real proof. Once they believe....all other teachings become concrete. They pour their hearts, souls and minds into the organization. The fairytale of living forever with flowers and happy bunnies surrounding you becomes an obsession. All the other teachings are what is focused on with the "fact" that the "slave" was chosen back in 1919 being an afterthought. Inability to prove the 1919 selection at a later date becomes a moot point because the belief in everything else that has been taught and the NEED to believe in the new system is SO strong that it shuts down their mental faculties that would make a normal person question everything. They mentally shut down when the topic comes up and they respond with things like "you just have to have faith" or......"wait on Jehovah". By refusing to address the truth....they preserve their cherished beliefs.
That's the thing with witnesses. They don't reason "if I refuse to accept the truth about our history....then I can preserve my cherished beliefs". They are trained to automatically shut down critical thinking in that area without even knowing it. They don't realize that they AREN'T thinking critically.
When you try to get them to focus on 1919 and prove it.....their minds automatically shut off and start viewing you as someone trying to destroy their faith. They go into automatic faith defense mode and start rationalizing the irrational. And they don't even see/know it
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outsmartthesystem
"My trouble is with this argument, as sound as it is, is that I'm not convinced that many Witnesses DO realise that their whole belief structure hangs on the events that supposedly happened invisibly in 1919"
This all comes down to cognitive dissonance. It is a powerful thing. My wife once told me "you get caught up in chronology and dates too much. I don't let stuff like that bother me. To me.....chronology and dates aren't all that important." Her need to believe it is the truth completely outweights the fact that it cannot be proven to be true without exact chronology. Her need to believe clouds her ability to soundly reason on the matter. And the same is true for 7 million others
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garyneal
Thanks for you input, everyone. I can understand why a believing Jehovah's Witness would simply not care about the 1919 selection, especially if that witness has 'made the truth his own.' For a believing witness, this religion offers faith, hope, good friends, a sense of belonging, etc.. Why would any witness give that up?
When I was about 10 years old, a friend of mine found God and began preaching a lot. I guess you could call this my first real exposure to religion. He preached with conviction the coming tribulation and the rapture of the church. He even went as far as to say that it will come soon, VERY soon, before the end of the 1980's and definitely by the year 2000. He pointed to the mark of the beast and stated that Ronald Reagan had the mark because the number of the letters in his name all counted up to 6.
Sometime, years later, when I began to get more involved in church and religion, I would on occasion come across individuals who would set dates for things like, Armageddon and/or the Tribulation. Jack Van Impe was one individual who I use to watch everynight on TV. Because of my church affiliation (the IFB) there was no shortage of individuals who would proclaim with conviction totally unprovable things and / or things that were readily proven false (if not immediately proven false, eventually proven false). I ultimately came to realize that, while my core faith remained intact, many of these outlandish claims were best handled with a grain of salt.
In comes the witnesses and their 1914 teaching and their only the 144,000 go to Heaven teaching and their teaching that only they had the truth. I knew right away that these claims were never to be taken with anything more than a grain of salt due to my exposure to similarly wild claims by fundamentalists in years past. However, I was astonished at the fact that my witness was not allow to question any of it and still view herself as a witness in good standing. You see, by the time I met my wife, I was already of the questioning mindset and many of my Christian friends were cool with that and even thought well of me for being a 'thinker.' Not the witnesses, you either had to accept all of it or none of it and no other church was preaching the truth (another thing that bothered me). Unlike other churches that generally accepted believers who did not attend their church as valid and were more inclusive, the witnesses were a very exclusive set of people who rivaled the people of my old IFB church. Given so many parallels between them and my old IFB church goers, I found it difficult to accept them the way my wife did. And yet, according to them, I am suppose to otherwise I have no hope.
So, if I am to accept them as being the one true religion in spite of everything that I have become over the years, I expect them to be able to prove it. The selection in 1919 is suppose to prove all of this and I am so serious when I tell witnesses like my wife and those here on the board that if indeed this can be proven, I'm sold.
So..., what say you? Lurkers, people of Bethel who are lurking here, mankelli, Alice In Wonderland, Doubtfully Yours, Reinna, PJS Chipper, Angel Eyes, and any others who I did not mention. Can you prove it?
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Black Sheep
To me.....chronology and dates aren't all that important.
Me, "How can you say it's unimportant when your converts are going to destroy their relationships with any of their offspring who don't believe that doctrine? Treating them as though they are mentally diseased, and under instructions from your church hierarchy to not even defend that doctrine to them?"
Silence
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wobble
bump.
J W's ! THE WORLD DESERVES AN ANSWER !!!!!!!!!!!
You knock on our doors, expecting us to join your religion, and put our lives, and the lives of our children and loved ones, on the line for the religion, and you are not prepared to show that your religion tells the truth about the 1919 choosing ?
If they are lying about this, how can it in any way be the "Truth" ?
Answer please.
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wobble
BUmp again, it is SO important this.
If the 1919 choosing by Jesus cannot be proven, then the GB has no credibility or authority, and neither do any dogs-body Elders.
All of them become self-appointed frauds.
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EndofMysteries
Gary - scriptually the evidence they use about 1914 and 1919 can be easily proved as wrong, all the scriptures relating to the scriptual proof they provide do not match up and they butchered many prophecies as well. When that is exposed, then there are two choices, 1. accept it's wrong 2. blind denial. but they will be unable to back up with any scriptures.
One day I'll post all the scriptual evidence that completely destroys the 1914 and 1919 dates.
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garyneal
Well, well. Looks like Mankelli has responded.
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2tone
Well it cant be proven because 1914 didnt happen so how the hell did he chose them in 1919