The Earliest Christians

by Adonai438 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Adonai438
    Adonai438

    Hi all! I am posting quotes from the writtings of the earliest Christians to share whether or not the JW statement of
    The Trinity not existing until the council of Nicea is accurate or not. So these quotes are relevant to the trinity. Not neccessarily whether or not you believe in the trinity or God but would you say these people believed in the concept of the trinity?

    The following quotes show that the doctrine of the Trinity was indeed alive-and-well before the Council of Nicea.

    Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.


    "O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

    Justin Martyr (100-165). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
    "For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

    Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
    "In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
    "We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

    Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.
    "The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: ...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all...'" (Against Heresies X.l)

    Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
    "We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation...[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

    Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. A disciple of Origen. Defended Christianity. He wrote much about Christianity.
    "If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority...There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).
    "For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)
    "Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification..." (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).

    If, as the anti-Trinitarians maintain, the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine and was never taught until the council of Nicea in 325, then why do these quotes exist? The answer is simple: the Trinity is a biblical doctrine and it was taught before the council of Nicea in 325 A.D.

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    Hi angie, Good morning...or afternoon? I have to check.

    I have read these before and again. My Uncles, most of them, believe in the trinity as meaning that they are actuall litereally one in the same. I'm pretty familuar with the concept. I don't argue the scriptures you quoted here at all. I think I understand them clearly the same as you feel you understand them clearly but the fact of the matter is any of these scriptures can be interpreted either way. You choose your way and I choose my way. No pun intended.

    The same thing could be said about the Three Muskateeres.

    "All for one and one for all"

    plm

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Excellent point. Every time three of anything or anyone is mentioned or written somewhere, it's proof of the TRINITY. Ridiculous!

  • Adonai438
    Adonai438

    Hi Plum--
    I don't know if you meant to say scriptures or quotes but just in case-- they aren't scripture or trying to be. All I'm saying is that the early Christian believed in it-- that's not a proof in and of itself but it does show that it's not a far removed concept as these people were direct students of the original apostles. If they believed in it then it makes it more likely to be truth--
    Hi Utopian--
    I also am not saying that merely mentioning them together makes the trinity. If you read the quotes they clearly call Jesus God, Eternal, etc.. as well as prove the Holy Spirit is believed to be the same and a very real person-- not a 'force'. These are not scripture but are historical documents very close to the time of the original events that teach the concept later named by Tertulian around 160-215 AD, the trinity.
    The 'trinity' is just a name for a concept found in the Bible.

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    Since the canon of the scriptures wasn't "bound" until the 4th century, how can people say the scriptures don't teach the trinity?

    That would mean that the Bishops who decided on the canon and "bound" it, would have to have bound books that contradicted what they themselves believed? Seems pretty silly to me.

  • Rev BII
    Rev BII

    They don't all support the trinity and apart from that many of were leading church authorities. No wonder Tertulian supported this as he was the father of thet trinity.

    We can argue for ages about the Son with those that don't find the following enough:

    John 5:30 - "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

    (prophecy about Christ's judgment seat)

    but nowhere does the Bible back up that the Holy Spirit is God himself. Rather it's spirit (not a spirit) and God's spirit. While the NT letters again and again mention the Father and the Son it never mentions the Holy Spirit as 3rd being in that connection.

    The Holy Spirit is as in the OT God's Holy Spirit he chooses to fill people that are in his service with.

    God Bless

  • Rev BII
    Rev BII

    While we are busy arguing how to interpret 100 verses, let's remember the obvious:

    John 5:30 - "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. (RSV)

    A prophecy of Christ's judgment seat. This is the mighty God by authority of God Almighty (Jehovahs zeal) Isaiah 9:6-7. This is the one God Almighty has appointed. Indeed:

    Philippians 2:11 - and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Now if a trinitarian tells you that this support the trinity, you have from the horse's mouth that he believes in three Gods (and of cause he does).

    Matthew 24:36 - "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

    Another prophecy. Deals with the last days. Christ has been in heaven for a long time.. How can he, if he's the Almighty, not know what his 'other personality' knows? Makes no sense.

    God Bless

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    hi Adonai438,
    The anti-Trinitarians hate it when you bring up the early Christians.
    Some will call them names or claim a conspiracy but most just don't look claming the bible alone and saying that they are free to intrepid the bible as they will or "as the spirit leads them."
    I believe in the trinity because the apostles taught it. It's what is called "Tradition." it's not a dirty word it only means what the apostles and first regular ordinaries taught through the spoken word.

    Christians didn't come from the bible the bible came from Christians.

    The Great and Powerful Oz:

    pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
  • Satanus
    Satanus

    The name of the original group that followed jesus was 'the way'. Forty years later came christianity, founded by paul, the roman pharisee jew. See acts. Those descending from the original way were probably who came to be known as ebionites.

    SS

  • barry
    barry

    I like what you said Willy Think, and yes the early christians had a dispute with Gnostics who had there own scriptures they clamed from this or that apostale. Irenaeus was the champion against the Gnostics but because the Gnostics had there scriptures the appeal to scripture was useless in his arguements. Irenaeus therefore appealed to tradition he claimed that the churches throughout the christian world had the same beleifs used for the most part the same scriptures whereas the Gnostics beleived differently everywhere.
    The Arian doctrine of the JWs was developed by the heretic Arias in the fourth century , the first to give us a complete list of all the books of the bible as we have now was St Athaniathas in 369 ad and is well known for his stand on the trinity and the creed that bears his name is used in the catholic orthodox and anglican churches. Barry

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit