by Eiben Scrood 60 Replies latest jw friends
Nice of him to get back after TWO MONTHS! Must be REALLY BUSY. lol
Anyway, most of that is a regurgitation of the WT this last Sunday. He is in full-cult mode.
Give it two months, then simply send back a reply saying "I guess we will agree to disagree"
Thanks for all the feedback and warnings guys. I think I gave a tempered reply as I waited to cool off some. Here is what I said:
There are many things that bothered me about the organization for a long time. I wrote the Society a number of times and didn’t receive satisfactory replies. The truth is that it’s an organization obsessed with figures. A person’s “spirituality” is measured in numbers. For example, elders and ministerial servants are expected to average 10 hours per month. That figure is what counts. Does it matter if that time is spent riding around doing return visits on opposite ends of the territory? No. It’s that number that is important. I’ll never forget a circuit assembly I went to in 2002 where the district overseer there was obsessed with the theme of whether the publishers are meeting the national average. I left totally disgusted. That is not the kind of Christian love that Jesus talked about.
I was always bothered by the way people’s lives are played with by changing beliefs. They want to have it both ways. If it’s in the Watchtower, then you must accept it as coming from Jehovah but when that belief is changed a few years later, then it’s simply excused as old light and often the rank and file are blamed for reading too much into things. I have seen the effects the 1975 doctrine and the generation teaching have had on people. When I was in my teens, I personally read a lot of the older bound volumes and I was flabbergasted at some of the things I read. The hype was enormous. I’ve heard speakers sent out by the governing body that hyped it even more than what was in the literature. I remember a conversation I had with my mother about whether I should seek any additional education after high school and we figured out the numbers based on the old generation teaching and agreed that it didn’t make sense. Then, poof, it gets changed. No apology, no acknowledgement of the havoc it caused people. Then it gets changed AGAIN in 2008 and yet AGAIN in 2010!!!!!!!
I remember asking my mother as a little kid why the name Jehovah appears so infrequently in the Greek scriptures. She didn’t really have much of an answer. The fact is whole books don’t contain it even in the NWT. Some research shows that many of the times it is inserted into the NWT, it is for dubious reasons at best. The organization puts so much emphasis on that name and yet inspired writers saw fit to not even include it in whole letters. Jesus only used the name when quoting the Hebrew scriptures. Something is not right with this.
Again, I have another recollection. The September 8, 1991 I found to be very interesting at the time. It was all about the UN and it spoke about astounding things that would be done by the UN soon. Absent, however, was a single word about God’s kingdom. Now, to JWs, it would be inferred as to what might have been implied behind those words but for those unfamiliar with the teachings, an entirely different picture would be presented. It turns out that the Watchtower had a clandestine 10 year affair with the UN as an NGO beginning shortly after this in 1992. It continued until October 2001 when the newspaper the Guardian outed the Watchtower which withdrew the very next month. To qualify as an NGO, an organization had to promote the UN and its interests. That is exactly what the Watchtower did beginning with that egregious September article. The Society no doubt joined for human rights purposes but can you imagine what Jehovah would think of such a partnership? Just look up in the CD-ROM the number of articles about the UN during that 10 year period. They admitted it was wrong to be part of it when they withdrew but why did it take public exposure to bring this about?
My parents were very good people. My mother was a total Watchtower believer with no questions asked. My dad was another story, however. He questioned things. I would see question marks in the margins of his studied publications. We talked about stuff. There are a great many unanswered questions particularly in regards to prophecy. I would be glad to provide you specific examples if you like. The books of Daniel, Isaiah, Joel and Revelation in particular contain glaring errors in the Watchtower’s exegesis of them.
You mention Korah, what about David? He was going against the organization at the time. He was a hunted outcast.
The whole blood situation makes zero sense. It should be strictly a conscience issue but instead certain fractions are allowed to be taken. Where do those fractions come from? From donated blood! Yet, Witnesses are not allowed to donate or store their own blood. If blood is supposed to be poured on the ground, how can use of donated and stored blood be acceptable? Like I said, the entire decision on whether to take whole blood or fractions should be up to one’s conscience but for the Watchtower to go that route now would expose them to an untold number of lawsuits.
This really only scratches the surface of things. Please remember, you brought up religion. I just wanted to announce the happy news of the coming birth of my son. I have considered you a good friend for a long time and wanted to share this with you. I had no desire to stumble you or dissuade you in any way. I felt like you were pressing for more reasons for my dissatisfaction with the Watchtower organization so felt obligated to let you know some of my reasons.
lol, a tempered reply?
I know you wanted to give it to him straight, but from that I wouldn't expect him to ever speak to you again.
Not criticizing, I love it actually. But to a mind-controlled JW that reply is apostacy 101.
The thing is, with the exception of the NGO issue, all of this is pretty much stuff I came up with on my own long before I ever got on the internet. I'm hoping that he can tell that I'm not just parroting someone.
I feel like I at least defended myself and my choices.
You'll either never hear from him again, or you'll see him get on his High Horse in a very shocking manner. The WT literature gives JWs permission to indulge an emotion that they usually condemn: hate.
You were simply being honest with him.
Just be aware that the more you try to convince him the more his apostate radar will be pointing in your direction. You really are putting your fade in jeopardy with responses like these. If you are ready for that then carry on but if you are not ready for the elders and df'ing then try to control your urges to be direct and forthright. Your friend is a conditional friend his first loyalty will be to the organisation and protecting his spirituality. Careless talk is the biggest threat to a successful fader.
leavingwt - you nailed it. High horse indeed. Anyway, I'm done. I don't plan on ever communicating with him again. He can stay in his little cult and raise his two sons to be culties too. The Watchtower ends another friendship.
His reply:
It is good to hear your ideas but for me all those points don't make the a difference. It doesn't change the fundamental truths we get from his organization. We know ideas will change since the Bible points out the light will grow brighter and brighter as the day draws nearer. I expect there to be other changes as well down the road. If they didn't, then that would be an issue. The folks Jehovah has always used over the ages had flaws. David didn't go against the organization, he fled and waited until Jehovah took care of the issues. He didn't leave his organization, he still observed Jehovah's laws and stuck with Him. Many of Jesus's disciples left Jesus because they didn't like what he said about drinking his blood but his apostles stuck with him stating where else can we find the saying of everlasting life.
So ok you are 100% sure Jehovah isn't using the watchtower organization. I assume you have sent the elders notification that you don't what to be associated as a Witness. I know I wouldn't what to be associated with something I know to be 100% wrong such as still being considered a Catholic.
So which organization are you convinced God is using? Which organization is educating His people? Is someone else out there doing the preaching work about God's Kingdom? When you find that organization let me know. I guess they will be knocking on my door. As they say, happy hunting.
Geez louise, what a reply..... Eiben, you've been outed man. What do you plan on doing now?
It's incredible, but as I think back to my talks with JW's I had about not believing in the org, it's the exact same argument over and over.
"If it isn't this one, which is it?" "To whom shall we go to?"
Eiben Scrood: Very typical. Many of us have been on the receiving end of these messages. When you received such loving words from "friends", it hurts, but in the long run it makes it easy to move on. Why would you want to be friends with self-righteous, deluded robots? It sucks, but this is usually the way it is.
Mind cleansing and brain washing are one and the same. The ultimate goal is removal of all independant thinking.
