Is it OK to kill somebody?

by julien 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • julien
    julien

    Speaking entirely from a biblical standpoint:
    Let's say you are a devout JW. Your wife and children are being threatened by an intruder with a gun. He is intent on raping/torturing/killing them. You manage to get the gun away from him, now he is coming after you; or maybe he has got his hands around your 3 year old's throat. Do you shoot him?

    If so, why would you do that? It is a commandment from God that you should not kill another human. This command is also given to Christians. Murder is a disfellowshiping offense. Why is it OK to break this principle to save yours or your spouses or families life? Would you be DFed by the Borg for this action? Shouldn't you watch him systematically kill your entire family rather than break one of God's commands? Especially a big one like Murder.

    Can anyone guess where I'm going with this?

  • Doc_jedd
    Doc_jedd

    Well of course ya shoot the bastard,thats what is called self defense. As far as being D.F.`ed just what is important to you yer wife and kids, or that elitist social club ?

    ......Jedd of the dont f*ck with me that way class

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    That would be a far cry from murder.

    I've never heard anyone say they are forbiden to defend their own life or the lives of their family members especially under cercumstances like that. Thats just silly.

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    In regards to the blood thing. You could very well use that as an example for giving you child or yourself a blood transfusion. Anyone can do that. So why are you trying to make your point here? Why don't you take your argument right to the elders or better yet take it to the GB. There only going to tell you what you are waiting to hear.
    Where is it written that self defense is a sin? That argument would not hold up where you Should want it to count.

  • julien
    julien
    That would be a far cry from murder.

    I've never heard anyone say they are forbiden to defend their own life or the lives of their family members especially under cercumstances like that. Thats just silly.

    You are missing the point. The point is that the bible forbids the taking of another life. Yet in order to save your or another's life it is OK to break this command. I want to know why you can break this command to save a life but you can't take blood to save a life. The answer is obvious, I just want to point out the inconsistancy.

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Is it OK to kill someone? If its Fred Hall, it is.

    The Pope

  • picosito
    picosito

    WTS sez it's not OK to shoot someone in self-defense because the blood would be on the shooter's hands. That looks to me like more WTS false reasoning. If I rob a bank and shoot people, that's different. But when I'm defending myself and my family in my home, the bloodguilt would be on the intruder himself. Of course if I pick up a broom and broom his face like WTS suggests because I don't want any "bloodguilt" on my own hands, the intruder can then kill me and my family. In that case the bloodguilt should be on the Watchtower's hands because of another stupid teaching. Their position on this can be found in some publication(s). I don't remember which ones, except on pp. 141-142 of the Flock book. You can search Watchtower Library also.

    PLEASE NOTE: With all the anti-gun hysterics going on these days, we have to especially careful to make sure our self-defense gun use was actually legally justified, even if defending our home and family, because chances are we might have to go to trial and defend our own right to have shot the intruder. Intruders have "rights," you may hear, and families of criminals do not hesitate to try to get criminal charges filed against defenders. This can happen even in Texas, where gun laws are pretty liberal, and in other states such as California, New Jersey, Illinois, New York, to name a few, you can be sure to be hauled into court and be charged with murder and sued for damages unless the cops can see that it was a blatantly open and shut case of how you had to shoot the bastard or you and others would be dead.

    I just remembered about how in that very intense and dangerous Bank of America shootout in North Hollywood, California a few years ago, one of the bastards that had fired at the police thousands of rounds from his automatic weapon right up until the last second of the event wasn't given medical attention "soon enough" and so his relatives sued the LAPD. Even the cops have to be MORE than careful when they use their firearms, even in something as horrific as that shootout.

    By the way, the Shootout at the O.K. Corral (actually in a vacant lot in BACK of the O.K. Corral) is still unresolved, according to surviving Clanton family members. They still claim that Wyatt Earp & Co. acted unlawfully when they used deadly force against Ike and his family and friends.

    I took a Texas concealed carry course several months ago and was amazed at how you're scored on how many shots you get right smack in the middle of the cardboard-man-silhouette target's breastbone. If you're gonna shoot someone, they want you to really STOP (they don't say KILL, just STOP) him and not mess around!!!

    Here is a website that has lots of useful info on what's going on with guns these days: links to articles about The Armed Citizen, pilots and guns, plus much more: http://www.keepandbeararms.com. Happy shooting!!!

  • TD
    TD

    Speaking entirely from a Biblical standpoint, doesn't the Bible prescribed the death penalty for certain crimes, the first of which being murder? (Gen 9:6) Was murder the penalty for murder or did the Bible clearly differentiate between justifiable and unjustifiable homicide?

    For that matter didn’t the Law specifically state that there was no bloodguilt if a thief was killed in your home at night? (Ex 22:2)

    I’m not sure how it can be said that the Bible categorically forbade the taking of another human life when there seem to have been obvious exceptions.

  • belbab
    belbab

    Around 1962, In Prince George, BC. an older brother of east
    European origin, who did not speak English that well had a jewelry store and it was robbed a number of times. After one robbery, a policeman said to him jokingly, Why didn't you shoot, the bugger or something similar. The jeweler took the policeman's word literally.

    The jeweler, who was a Jehovah's Witness had his apartment upstairs above the store. Another breakin took place at night, someone was breaking down the back door, and someone was on the roof.He took his rifle and shot the intruder dead.

    Almost before the prison cell door slammed shut on him, he was disfellowshipped. His Jehovah's witness friends of the same nationality were dismayed, they couldn't even go and visit him in jail, put up bail or help or comfort him.

    I don't know what happened to that old brother. He had no witnesses for his side of the story. The last I heard was that the intruders claimed that they had only been drinking beer in the back alley. I left that town shortly after and I never heard whether the jeweler got off or not.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    For all of my adult life if someone had tried to break into my house it would not have been a matter of getting the gun away from him. I'd have shot the SOB as soon as he was all the way inside (Washington State definition of self defense).

    If the elders had formed a JC over the matter I'd have told them to take a hike.

    I guess I always was a bad dub.

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