by behemot 91 Replies latest jw friends
Yeah, American soldiers have recently complained about pressure. I don't know all the details, but I think they fill out a questionairre asking about their spiritual standing. Those that said they were atheists were "encouraged" to get spiritual counseling. Again, I don't know all the details and I don't know what policy is, but apparently the pressure is still there.
NC
PZ Myers comments on "Spiritual Fitness"
Hmph. So our soldiers can fight to protect free speech and freedom of religion---they just can't exercise the rights themselves. NO, atheists feel perfectly at home here. No pressure.
NC
Another thing that bugs me, is when someone actually complains about the lack of separation between church and state, it's "an attack on Christianity"
In my circle, admittedly Eastern establishment, atheism and agnosticism are the norm. People proclaiming their faith are viewed as a bit touched. Some people go to church for social and cultural reasons.
I see rampant discrimination against believers. Believers are assumed to be thoughtless and poorly educated right wing nuts.
So much depends on where you live and your social class. I used to explain I attended church with slight embarassment. We laugh at the evangelicals on TV. You have to bite into the faith for it to bother you.
Yeah, you can go after Dawkins character that's fine. He doesn't claim to be holy or good. But still, that god sanctioned the extermination of an entire race including babies, but it's close minded to define it as such. It's weeding through the facts. Hitler tried to exterminate an entire race, but he brought unemployment to nearly zero for his chosen race. Perhaps we should focus on only the good aspects and not malign the man so. I think this goes beyond the normal way humans screw up their lives and deep into crimes against humanity.
Dawkins is correct and right to criticize the depction of God in the OT, I am not arguing that.
What I am saying is that is NOT the reason some people dislkei some atheists, they displke them because of HOW the present their case.
I like Dawkins, I just think that the way he presents his case sucks and he comes off as an ass.
From what I gather he isn't and from some debates I have seen with people his views as "equals" he comes off far better than when he starts with his arrogant "believers are idiots and that is why they believe" schtick.
I remember that story where the Israelites didn't kill the canaanite women and children thinking maybe they could live. That wasn't to be so. They got in a heap of trouble and the women and babies were massacred anyway. It's hard to work past something like that, no matter what good the individual did in other areas.
As a Christian, I must reconcile what was done in the name of God in the OT to what was revealed as God's true nature in the NT.
So, P.sac, the God of the old testament did not reveal his true character ? or the O.T is lying about god's true character?
What is revealed there is, as has been stated, a vile immoral person.
Yet he is the same God as in the N.T ? WTF?
This may have been said, but are Atheists, to Americans, what Communists were post WW2?
The new bogey man.
So, P.sac, the God of the old testament did not reveal his true character ? or the O.T is lying about god's true character?
Lie? at times, yes, to get what they wanted (control) and we have not only the words of Christ about that, being even Jereimiah too.
What is revealed there is, as has been stated, a vile immoral person.
I would agree that, at times, YHWH comes off really, really bad.
Yet he is the same God as in the N.T ? WTF?
As Christ said, "no one knows that Father, no one has seen the father, except the son" and "He who sees the Son, sees the Father".
This may have been said, but are Atheists, to Americans, what Communists were post WW2?
The new bogey man.
Can't speak for anyone but myself but I think that Militant atheist as indeed viewed by man as the "bogey man".
Regular atheist - those that don't beleive because they don't think there is any evidence of God and couldn't care less about those that do believe, as long as people still obet the laws of society and those that don't deserve to go to jail- those people everyone is ok with.
I have a few personal friends that are atheist and I consider soem fo you pagan atheist my friends too :)
I love you guys for all that you are, you are my brothers and sisters and while we may not agree on everything, I will stand by you and your rights to, respectfully, express your POV.
Another thing that bugs me, is when someone actually complains about the lack of separation between church and state, it's "an attack on Christianity"
This.
PS, this is an honest question because I don't understand. I understand how I was able to reconcile things when I believed, cognitive dissonance, but here is the part I don't understand. You've said the old testament description of god is wrong, but the new testament description is correct. What do you base your decision on? Jesus quoted extensivly from the OT, therefore in his opinion it was accurate. He never offered any corrections. He never pointed to any account and insist that it was a misrepresentation of his father. I just think he would have done that if his loving father was so slandered. Since he believed that satan was the father of the lie, I think he would have called out any lies in scripture. After all he was jealous for his father's name---reputation.
If it's because you like the message better, I totally get that. I have nothing against Jesus and his teachings sit well with me. I think that in a world surrounded by angry gods, including the Hebrew god, his message of love was noteworthy. But from everything he is recorded as saying, I conclude that he fully supported all actions of this murderous god, even though he wanted to bring about a new era. I just find it problematic.
NC
