by Nickolas 55 Replies latest jw friends
Passing through on my way to bed after a long and productive day in the workshop. Another generous contribution from Shelby awaits my attention in the morning. I will have sweet dreams.
Aesop's fable about the sun and the wind comes to mind, Curtains. In my world the person in the fable is my wife and the cloak she's wearing is the Watchtower. All these years I've been the wind.
Good night, all.
I have very little time again. My brother's coming to pick me up in 10 minutes then the rest of the day is shot.
Forgive me if I sound contentious - that is not my intention - but wasn't the purpose of such works AND the First Amendment to keep government out of religion... by preventing the establishment of a State church (although the U.S. initially did establish one), as had been done in England... thus allowing the way for FREEDOM of religion... and NOT the abolishment of it?
And here I thought it was the other way around. Maybe a bit of both. The application of religious morals within the laws of the various colonies was by no means equal. Even in the UK where the head of the church of England is also head of state secular law prevails. It was all a comparative point, anyway. A backdrop to the main point that evidence either supports or belies the truth of what someone is saying.
Have you read Franz's books, Shelby? To be honest it really doesn't matter to me where he ended up in his faith, only that he left the cancerous influence of the Watchtower when he discovered that it was not what it appeared to be. I'd be delighted if my wife went back to Anglicanism (speaking about the Church of England) or found some other organised religion to devote her life to that doesn't hurt and kill people and otherwise ruin their lives. If she was to find Christ all on her own, that would be fine, too. I admit to being perhaps a little mercenary in this conversation.
Greetings, dear Nick... and peace to you! My apologies for the delay in responding: had to take a few days off.
Even in the UK where the head of the church of England is also head of state secular law prevails.
That wasn't always the case, though, was it? And wasn't freedom of religion (and seperation from the Anglican and Catholic Churches) the reason some left the "Old Country" and came to the "New World"? I mean, besides the pilfering and plundering of the land... massacre, slavery, and oppression of the indigenous peoples... and theft of natural resources such as gold?
It was all a comparative point, anyway. A backdrop to the main point that evidence either supports or belies the truth of what someone is saying.
Understood. Again, though, there is some difference in understanding... and acceptance... as to what "evidence" is. For example, my seeing Light come into existence is enough evidence to ME as to how it did. Since others have not seen it... and cannot prove it empirically (at least, not yet), the thinking is that there is no such evidence. Yet, a look at the physical universe should TELL them that you need light (because it is energy... and generates heat) in order for there to BE a physical universe. Well, at least a LIVING physical universe. Otherwise, you'd just have a buttload of dead rocks floating around. But it is that energy... and heat... and thus, light... that even causes the physical universe to exist AS it does: moving, expanding, orbiting, etc. The only reason I know it... is NOT because of what scientists SAY... but what I SAW.
So what? So, FAITH... is the ASSURED expectation of the thing hoped for, the EVIDENT demonstration of REALITY... though not beheld (with the physical senses). Because of what I was shown... what my SPIRIT saw... I am ASSURED... that the universe came about as it did... because I saw the EVIDENCE of that reality, even though not with my eyes of flesh. THAT evidence absolutely supports the TRUTH: that in order to bring forth the creation, the physical realm, Light had to come forth, first. And in order FOR that Light to come forth, the Most Holy One of Israel CALLED it forth, SPOKE it into existence in THIS world. Which is what the record states.
Have you read Franz's books, Shelby?
Not entirely, dear one. I started "Crisis of Conscience." However, in the 3rd or 4th Chapter, Mr. Franz made an unequivocal statement that I KNEW was totally false (but revealed HIS truth), and I couldn't read past that point. I cannot reveal the statement; however, by making it Mr. Franz revealed to me that although he knew (or felt) the WTBTS and its GB were NOT "anointed", members of the Body of Christ, or even "christians,"
he still didn't know what those terms truly meant or who WAS such (not personally/individually, but in general). I realized that I didn't need to read Mr. Franz's experience to know that the WTBTS was a false prophet or its GB false christs; my Lord had already revealed that to me.
Don't get me wrong: I did realize and appreciated that some WOULD need... and even benefit... from Mr. Franz's account of things. But personally, there was nothing he could relate that would surprise me. Contrary to the beliefs of many, they really aren't any different from, say, the other "harlots" in their adultery and fornication... except that they, alone, shut up the kingdom of the heavens by teaching contrary to Christ's words that ANYONE may eat of his flesh and drink his blood, indeed if they do NOT, they have no life in themselves. In that alone, they are the most reprehensible of the harlots.
To be honest it really doesn't matter to me where he ended up in his faith, only that he left the cancerous influence of the Watchtower when he discovered that it was not what it appeared to be.
I agree and that may be enough for some. It was not enough for me, personally. My goal was not to leave a religion, per se. It was to find the Truth... wherever it/he happened to be. If it turned out he/it WAS in another religion, I most probably would have gone there. I learned it/he was not... as well as that I didn't need to follow any man, even one who recognized his error in following a false prophet. I did, however, need to follow that Truth... and no one else. And so, I chose that path.
I'd be delighted if my wife went back to Anglicanism (speaking about the Church of England) or found some other organised religion to devote her life to that doesn't hurt and kill people and otherwise ruin their lives.
I can understand that. Again, just another religion would never have done it for me - not after having found the Christ/Truth. Or, rather, after having been found by him. Nothing can compare, dear one. Nothing. EVERYTHING else falls short, somehow, someway. You know: "666".
If she was to find Christ all on her own, that would be fine, too.
Actually, that would be GREAT, IMHO. But, that's just my opinion...
I admit to being perhaps a little mercenary in this conversation.
Not sure I understand what you mean. But, as always, peace to you, anyway!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
Hey there, Shelby. Hope you're feeling better.
Yes, you are right that UK society was strongly based on Roman Catholicism and then Anglicanism when Henry VIII couldn't get his way with the Pope. It has, however, evolved. My comments were in a modern context. Still, I see your point. If one reflects on what society puts people in jail for it is clear that even modern societies are still tainted by religious morals that have no place in the modern world. There are still states in the US which have sodomy (whether hetero- or homosexual) on their books as a crime punishable by imprisonment, for example. There are people rotting in western jails for simple cannabis possession. These are victimless "crimes" that have old testament origins.
Your perception of the origins of light is your perception, so part of your reality. My perception is different, so part of mine. Never the twain shall meet, as it goes. No harm, no foul.
I am mercenary insofar as I will shamelessly use the intelligence, insights and knowledge of anyone, you included dear lady, toward the realisation of one focussed objective, and that is to get my wife out of the WTBTS. Once that is accomplished, I may never speak to you again (but you may rest assured you will be fondly and gratefully remembered, if that is any consolation.)
I am mercenary insofar as I will shamelessly use the intelligence, insights and knowledge of anyone, you included dear lady, toward the realisation of one focussed objective, and that is to get my wife out of the WTBTS.
Then, by all means, use what I share, dear Nick (peace to you!). Because at least another religion will not only allow her, but encourage her, to partake of my Lord's flesh and blood. And that is a start.
Once that is accomplished, I may never speak to you again
I understand - you have a goal and once it's reached, there's really no more need for this board and/or our discussions. Uh-huh, yeah... well, good luck with that! (BIG SMILE!).
(but you may rest assured you will be fondly and gratefully remembered, if that is any consolation.)
It absolutely is, dear one. And should our interchanges end... for whatever reason... rest assured I will feel the same as to you, truly. Indeed, it will have been MY privilege!
Peace to you, dear Nick!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
You're ok, Shelby.
Good night.
