Part 6 a/b: Last Pub Talk - Memorial Saga (page 2)

Amazing

Hi Cygnus: My KMs are buried in boxes. The instructions you read were more difinitive. I recall a subsequent KM that said it is 'suggested' that ... and the procedure was outlined as you wrote. I would not have recalled such, except it was a matter of specific debate in the Elders meeting. If it is helpful, I will try to find it and cite it for reference. Thanks for bringing out the 89 KM.

jst2laws

Amazing,

I have been checking here regular just for the latest installment. I have lost your e-mail address in a recent hard drive change. Please e-mail me.

Jst2laws

LittleToe

That's incredible, Amazing.
Please keep 'em coming, it's fascinating.

I can soooo relate to knowing a few Elder A's!!
I think Simon may be right about the clone factory. I wonder if that is what the underground complex is about at Walkhill (?).

Cygnus

Can't find that subsequent 'suggested' KM.

I'm not trying to kill the enthusiasm for your anecdotes, Amazing. I'm sure most of the events you are recalling are fairly accurately portrayed. Call me overly skeptical though, once in a while.

Amazing

Hi Cygnus: I am glad that you looked it up. If I am screwed up on my references, then I need to be sure. I made notes of that Elders meeting, and the topic of "suggestion" was a big part as I wrote about.

I will also go through my boxes and see if anyting from 1990 through 1992 shows up, and will also check to see if maybe it was a Watchtower article. Though, the Society generally confines those types of detailed instructions to KMs or BOE Letters or in the Memorial Outline. I think I still have that Memorial Outline and will look at that as well.

If it reference cannot be found then I will have to amend my post to make a note of the fact. I know that if Elder C saw the words "shall" or "will" in place of "Suggestion" or "Suggested" he would have hammered that point and I would not have tried to debate with them about any "Suggestion." I would have had to concede sooner than I did.

This will be a good exercise for me to nail this down one way or the other. My family recalls the events because I kept them informed about everything that the Elders were doing. I did this because I wanted them to see events unfold and see how difficult it can become. So, I will check with them to see what they recall. Thanks again.

r51785

Amazing, I enjoy your posts very much and have looked forward each evening to your latest. I have one question regarding below:

The Memorial begins and I am introduced. I start off by delivering the talk as outlined by the Society. One little Loophole exists in every Memorial Talk, at least it did up to 1992.

Does this loophole still exist. Did the Society shut it down. I can't imagine they would allow that much freedom to any speaker anymore.

picosito

Organized Bullshit.

Amazing

Hi R51785: I don't know if the "Loophole" still exists. I did go to the JW Memorial in 1993 in another congregation due to a special invitation. I could not get out of it. At that time the Elder giving the Talk used the Serving Time to make extra comments ... and it seemed as though he was deliverying his own personal point. But, I never questioned him on this. That was the last JW meeting I ever attended.

I am not sure the Society would have eliminated this "loophole" as I call it, unless they developed 'required' fill in material during the time the Emblems are served. My situation was unique to me. So, I don't think they would see a need to make changes. But, then again, stranger things have happened.

JeffT

Very interesting story. I can't imagine spending that much time trying to figure out how to pass a plate of crackers and a cup of wine around a room! An excellent example of what legalism does to a church.

Have you considered writing a book? Among other things I find your dealings with your family fascinating. The dam broke for us in the spring of 1988 when Mrs. T and I found out we'd both been secretly reading C. of C. Less than a year later we were free.

I wonder how many others are out there doing what they do out of fear.

teejay

Amazing,

Bigboi told me that this series of yours was worth reading and he was right. If it were in book form I'd almost buy it. Seriously. It's that good.

It is a very good account and I hope you will continue it in the tone you have carried so far. Since I came to it late, I hope you don't mind my commenting on all of the first six installments here in this one thread....

I started to pray to God ... I asked for help so I could get my family out. I did not think it fair to lose them to the organization. I told him I didn’t know what to do, but I couldn’t take it anymore ... I had to find a way to leave.

My heart goes out to any head of a family who faces this problem... how can I leave WITH my family. Leaving them behind would be a terrible option. No doubt it is the reason why many see no way out and stay. I cannot condemn them.

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My wife ... told me that she had some news. She then put my younger daughter on the phone. She told me that Elder A pulled her aside and exhorted her to end her “Home Study” and go back to Public School. Elder A told her that she was needed there to be able to witness to worldly kids and to be an example to encourage other young JW children at school. I was boiling mad.

I decided to tell my oldest daughter what happened... I explained that I was very unhappy at what went down with Elder A, and that when we returned, I was going to have words with him. I warned my daughter that this could lead to my being Disfellowshipped because I cannot tolerate such interference. She agreed that Elder A was wrong and arrogant. She assured me, for the first time, that if I get DF’d, she would not shun me.

I must tell you... a tear came to my eye and a lump to my throat when I read what your daughter said. It must have given you strength to know that you had her continuing support and love. Good for her. And you.

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During the course of our meetings at APS, some of the engineers and their wives invited me and my daughter to a Japanese restaurant. I accepted, and we went out. The evening was fun, and these non-JW people were so very nice. No one swore or tried to do anything immoral. No one got drunk or fell into debauchery. I recall this as important because for the first time we were starting to relate to people outside the JWs, and discovered that people are people – that they are mostly good, and our fears as JWs were greatly exaggerated.

Isn't it quite revealing to discover that just as many non-JWs (I refuse to call them "worldly") are every bit as good as JWs? Learning that is hard at first but one gets used to it after a while. I was taught that even non-JW relatives were not to be trusted. I was not taught the truth.

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Here I was just about to leave the religion when this kind of trouble starts. Why this begin to happen at this point is still a puzzle to me to this day. I was still going to meetings and playing the role. I had not said anything out of line to anyone. But, keeping up appearances was somehow not enough ...

A JW might reason that this was “Jehovah’s Spirit” operating on the Elders so as to “smoke me out” as one Elder put it to me later on. Or, a non-JW Christian might say that it was God’s Holy Spirit exposing the “Wolves in Sheep’s clothing” so as to help me make progress in getting out of the cult. I am just not in a position to make a certain claim about God, but have to trust that if He was indeed involved as I would like to believe, that He was exposing the Wolves by removing the Sheep’s clothing... the evidence suggests that many more “Wolves” coming out of the woodwork and shedding their Sheep-like appearance shows that something unusual – perhaps "paranormal" was taking place.

"Interesting" happenings, is all I'll say. And that Elder A was a control freak and he was envious of your anointed status, probably. By your words, he was not a popular fellow.

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I not only was having productive family studies into the issues of Watchtower teachings, but I was having one-on-one discussions with my wife and each child. They were beginning to open up more, feeling safe to express their own concerns. I did not jump on it when they disagreed with the Society, rather, I just listened and asked questions. This at least help foster an environment where they felt safer and safer to express themselves – more importantly to think for themselves.

I remember reading your tips on Randy's site. I saved it a long time ago 'cause I thought I might need it one day. It's neat knowing the background to what you wrote there.

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My son-in-law returned from Bethel and pursued his engagement to my daughter. We drove to California so he could meet his future Grand-Parents-in-law... he had his own concerns with the Society that he had buried, and the opening gave him the freedom to unload. He shared things about Bethel life that made my hair stand on end

Have you posted what topics that discussion included? That is, what happenings at Bethel made his hair stand on end? If not, any plans to do so?

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The PO talks to Elder A and tells him I will handle all the arrangements. For some reason unknown to me, the PO mentions my teeny-tiny little adjustment to the Serving procedure ... and Elder A does not like it. So, Elder A says that I am not following the Society instructions, and calls for an Elders meeting immediately after the Watchtower study. Just a side note: You know, I look back on this now, nearly ten years later, and it still seems so silly as it did then. Why do JW Elders like this have to make a fuss over such small things? I have never fully figured it out.

It's all about power and control, baby!

Elders CAN call a meeting so they do. After that, they can influence the direction a congregation takes or even what an individual does, even if the matter is so miniscule and inconsequential as passing out emblems. Hard to believe that I once thought that God above had a personal hand in picking these types of people to lead entire groups of people.

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... the PO speaks up: The Memorial is really an occasion for the Anointed, and I think we should do what he asks while he is still with us on earth. We wont’ have the opportunity to again work shoulder to shoulder with the Anointed. As for Organizational instructions, maybe Jehovah is also testing us to see how we treat Jesus Brothers right in our midst.

The PO seems like a cool dude; not as power hungry or egocentric. Of course, I haven't read the rest of the story...

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sure that I was proven wrong – or better stated that they were right, and that they were following Jehovah’s Organization to save their lives at Armageddon.. They were unable to abide by the earlier Elders meeting and unanimous vote.

Sunday we hold our Elders meeting again after the Watchtower Study, and all 6 of us are present. Elder A comes in and sits down right next to me ... and spreads his legs so that his knees push mine to the side, and then he spreads his elbows and punches my ribs slightly. He whispers in my ear that he is pleased to see me, and that he finds it a “Privilege” to serve along side of me. Okay, I thought, but please don’t get physical.

Funny. That guy had issues.

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Elder G then speaks about me and says that he feels Brother Amazing is making light of the most serious celebration of Jehovah’s people on earth today, and that these are not ‘Just Serving Emblems. (I said to myself, please God, let me die.)

Another funny one.
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btw, Amazing, the '89 Kingdom Ministry, page 4:

4 Congregation elders will want to be sure that all arrangements for the Memorial have been carefully made well in advance. Be sure to select well-qualified brothers to pass the emblems. These brothers should be elders or ministerial servants, if available. Have a sufficient number of brothers prepared to do this so that the passing of the emblems will not be prolonged unnecessarily. After the servers have served those in the audience, the servers will sit down in the front row and the speaker will serve them. Finally, one of them will serve the speaker.

tj

Part 6 a/b: Last Pub Talk - Memorial Saga

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