Who REALLY IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by TimothyT 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    Short answer: Questioning the F&DS identity is pretty much where I started. I concluded that, if one exists (or existed), I have no evidence or reason to believe that the WTBTS is part of it.

    Long answer: I believe a search for truth should start with removing or suppressing childhood presuppositions and bias, then rebuilding from scratch, eliminating the most obvious fallacies with reason and evidence. I hope it's not too early in your journey but I'd recommend The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine. You can find it online for free and I'd say some of the nuggets of wisdom within it are priceless.

    Nine times out of ten, in the arts as in life, there is actually no truth to be discovered; there is only error to be exposed. – Mencken

  • boyzone
    boyzone

    Hi Tim

    If you want to know who the faithful and discreet slave is, look in the mirror. It is ANY christian who remains faithful to CHRIST alone, not to an organization or a body of men. In fact it has nothing to do with an Organization.

    If you want to know who ISN'T the faithful and discreet slave class, read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz (Ray Franz was a former Governing Body member for 9 years and nephew to Fred Franz)

    www.commentarypress.com

  • Lozhasleft
    Lozhasleft

    It cant be the JWs governing body as they claim because they are bringing terrible shame on Jehovah's name. Simple.

    Loz x

  • clarity
    clarity

    Welcome TimothyT,

    You've just put one foot ahead of the other ....so just keep on looking, you'll find your answers.

    "Why would Jehovah use an earthly organisation? Would he need one"

    Why would he indeed! Christ already has the job.

    "Jesus said again, most TRULY I say to you, I am the DOOR of the sheep. All those that have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers."(john10:7)

    Even though the governing body has brazenly inserted itself in between man & Christ - usurping him, they have no legal or scriptural rights for this. Or much less claim to be mediators for the great crowd!

    clarity

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    The idea that God "chooses" anything over anything shows favoritism.... not an attribute of the True God.

    The truth is hidden in all religions, and God is an equal opportunity life-giver.

  • TimothyT
    TimothyT

    Thanks everyone for commenting! Its interesting to listen to you ideas!

    Ding & Mindmelda: I like the points you make... The bible teaches that Jesus is the way the truth and life! (John 14:6) :) Ill always remember that no matter what im asked to believe by the JW's.

    Tec: Thanks for your thoughs! Im not too sure about this one. I can see why this scripture would apply to each of us individualy, but i just dont know! Looking at the context it appears to me that Jesus was speaking about those who care for the spiritual needs of others. In that time Jesus asked his disciples to do that. Having said that... i agree that doing his will applies to me personaly anyway, so i agree with you nontheless.

    Nickolas: Thanks. I have always been a inquistive and critical thinker. I have never taken anything on face value and questioned everything i have ever been taught. I finished university last year and it has realy opened my eyes in terms of question things. I understand that the WTS isnt all its cracked up to be, but i do love the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus. What an amazing thinker HE was!

    Gutted: Everytime i hear this scipture at out meetings (which is EVERY SINGLE meeting) i cringe! I appreciate that they may be 'A' faithful slave, and credit where its due, i believe they do a lot of good, but i also think its quite haughty to say that they are THE ONLY faithful slave. After all, Jesus illustration in the next few verses implies that there exist more than one faithful slave. Teh context is so important. It also upsets me when i read how condemnatory they are about other religious groups. Many of them do WONDERFUL works to try and help people. Some of them are more Christian than we are!!! Yet, the WTS still judges and condems them! That isnt Christian in my eyes. Ill have a look at the book! Thanks! :)

    Clarity: Thanks! I love learning truth and the quest for more knowledge is something i enjoy! I love the point when you say Christ already has the job. Once again it reminds me of the scripture on John 14:6 which says that no one comes to the father EXCEPT through him! Christianity is such a big balance isnt it. Its funny though, because sometimes, i wonder the intentions of the GB. Do they SERIOUSLY want to make it easier for us to worship Jesus or are they in it for their own personal glory? Sometimes im not too sure when i hear certain things from the platform.

    Anyway, thanks for your thoughts everyone. :) I appreciate them!

  • Este
    Este

    The slave never dies, is only one person, and does not join Jesus Christ in heaven. I know all about him :)

    Estephan

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    " The GB can't be the F&DS, because they are anything, but discreet."

    You got that right Moshe, they are the biggest bunch of Braggarts

    you will ever see, always comparin' themselves to others

  • saltyoldlady
    saltyoldlady

    Hi Tim - There is an excellent chapter in Ray Franz' book In Search of Christian Freedom just on this subject. I highly recommend your obtaining a copy and reading it - you will be surprised at the content - presented in a mild, reasonable manner - no "apostate" type bashing at all and great spiritual depth. Since I realize this may be difficult or uncomfortable for you to do at this time maybe I might make a few quick citations of points I highlighted in the material myself -

    Might also add I used to consider myself of this class for many decades.

    On page 126 - "...since in Scripture all true Christians are shown to be anointed of God." And he uses 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, I John 2:20, Romans 8:8-9, and verses 9-14 of this chapter also - to back this point up. "Of course the Watch Tower Society does not view all Christians as anointed and and divides Christians living today into two classes, a non-anointed class with an earthly hope, and an anointed class with a heavenly hope."

    I might add my own scriptural reference in addition to Brother Franz's - that of Ephesians 4:4-6 which reads "One body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called in the one hope to which you were called, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all persons who is over all and through all and in all." I emphasize there is ONE HOPE - not one class of Christians that are better than another or more spiritual or higher in rank - we are one flock under one Shepherd to quote John 10:16. Please, please don't divide the Bible up for yourself saying well that passage doesn't apply to me - I'm not of the anointed "rank" - it is ALL there for you to drink from and be enriched by.

    To go back to Franz on the same page 126 it says "Today this slave class is said to be composed of a remnant of 144,000 anointed ones yet alive on the earth.............the overriding concern is to authenticate and enforce - the view that God and Christ deal with people only through an organization, and that today that organization is the one connected with the Watch Tower Society."

    "In the book God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached on pages 185-186 it pointedly says of Russell's initial study group 'Thirty years later (1874) found a small group of men not associated with the Adventists or affiliated with any of the religious sects of Christendom, studying the Holy Scriptures at Pittsburgh, (Alleghany) Pa. They studied independently so as to avoid looking at the Bible through sectarian spectacles."............Back to Franz "Such a course today would be denounced as presumptuous, ineffectual, a rejection of God's channel, contrary to God's historical way of providing understanding of His Word through an organization. Remember the Watchtower's statement:

    ..........the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind. 10/1/1967 - page 587.

    In The Society's official history, Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose (page 17) further says of Russell:

    He made no claim of a special revelation from God, but held that it was God's due time for the Bible to be understood; and that, being fully consecrated to the Lord and to His service, he was permitted to understand it.

    He clearly believed that the "faithful and discreet slave" first came on the scene in his own day, and he makes crystal clear that he himself had not gone to any "faithful and discreet slave class" for enlightnment. In the April 15, 1904 Watch Tower Russell gives detailed arguments opposing the idea of a "composite steward" or "class" and in favor of a particular individual as the "faithful and wise servant." Many in those days viewed Russell as that servant. Yet the fact remains Russell did not turn to any earthly organization. He acted independently on his own.

    There is tons more here of great interest that conclusively illustrates the unlikelihood of Jesus Christ ever appointing the organization in the years 1918/1919 as His "chosen" channel or "faithful slave." But to bring it up to date the perceptioin that the food you receive in the WT magazines comes from the "slave class" is almost totally erroneous. Less than 1% of the contributions come from the remaining remnant - the great bulk comes from the great crowd. And the GB is not even likely to survey or pass on the content today - the great bulk of the writing and even the supervision of the Writing Committee has often been in the hands of the great crowd as it was in the days of Ray Franz even though he himself was a partaker of the emblems. And he points out that even if and when an article comes from the slave class it is not given any preference on that basis and not infrequently it is turned over to one of the great crowd for rewriting, editing, etc. And I myself know this also from what I have experienced and from those who know several on the Writing Committee in person.

    I think particularly perceptive here are his comments on page 163 under the heading Masking Over Reality - For What Purpose?

    "What then does the fictional teaching about a worldwide administrative and spiritual-food-supplying slave "class" accomplish? It provides a prime basis on which the organization's authority rests, by which a small group of men, whose number represents only one-seventh of one percent of the 8,800 "anointed," (numbers would be even worse today) assumes the right to determine not only what all the "anointed," but in fact all Witnesses, will read, study, believe and practice. By its stress on a "class" it also serves to robe the real authority structure with a shroud of anonymity, giving the appearancwe of a wide diversity of membership and globality that is 'not of whole cloth,' simply not true. This fictional concept enables the real authority structure - the dozen (now 8 I believe) or so members of the Governing Body - to ask for almost total obedience to their own directives, without appearing as arrogant or self-serving. "..........."As "the slave class" that authority source takes on a certain vagueness, an amorphous quality and an extensiveness belonging to an essentially faceless aggregation that is not definable or identifiable in any real sense for the average member. The euphemistic use of the expression and surprisingly, THEIR OWN BELIEF IN THE CONCEPT, also enables the Governing Body members to publish statements calling for almost total submission to their decisions without being troubled personally by a sense of arrogance."

    There is so so much more of value here to say but knowing it is probably as difficult for you to sit and read this volume of material as it is for me to type it out let me conclude with one key point he makes on page 165 - "The body of Christ" to which "class" all anointed Christians belong, is a spiritual body, its members not identified by earthly organizational membership."

  • strymeckirules
    strymeckirules

    when the son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth? luke 18:8

    jesus even doubted his teachings would make it into the future without changing.

    the slave is singular in the bible. never a class or a group of individuals.

    slave is a job designation.

    the faithful and discreet carpenter. the faithful and discreet racecar driver. the faithful and discreet janitor.

    you get the idea.

    the wts fits moreso into the discription from matt24:48-51. evil slave. but then again, evil slave is still not a class.

    the context is all about being aware that jesus is coming back and to watch and not lose faith. if you are faithful, you will be blessed. if you lose faith you're severly punished with the hypocrites.

    keep on the watch. YOU.

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