Conservative America and "The Meaning of the Flag-Draped Coffin"

by SweetBabyCheezits 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    Great comments!

    I absolutely can't stand mass-mails that circulate misinformation so I typed up a reply to the guy who sent it to me. We're on pretty good terms and have debated civilly before. Here's most of it...

    The author says some people refer to us as an “arrogant country”. While I believe it’s wrong to generalize an entire country as having any particular trait, this email certainly shows the author's hand: he is presumptuous and sociocentric. I believe this message reflects a prejudice among a high percentage of otherwise intelligent citizens (esp in the south), but that’s another story.

    Regarding the facts: The 21-gun salute had nothing to do with the year 1776. In fact, the custom predates the American Revolution. The numbers add up, sure, but the significance is purely eisegetical. If you want to read the true origin of the 21 gun salute, check out this link: http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/salute.html

    As for the flag folding, according to snopes, that is not the original reason the flag was folded in the traditional 13-step manner. Like many customs, those meanings were ascribed later. The method of folding was originally developed for technique and presentation. If someone chooses to assign meaning, religious or otherwise, that’s their prerogative and I’m glad I live in a country where a person can believe however they wish. But the author is the one who needs to get re-educated in history.

    Bear in mind, it would be ridiculous – if those were the true meanings behind the folding – to perform such a religiously-biased ceremony for every veteran who dies.

    After all, what if a soldier who dies doesn’t share the same religious views? If he was never a Christian, how respectful is it *of his sacrifice* to perform a ceremony at his funeral in which the fundamental meaning allows for only one religious view - one that he didn’t even subscribe to when alive?

    In a country advertising freedom of belief, freedom of speech, and diversity, wouldn’t it be ironic that the traditional military funeral ceremony is, by default, limited in meaning to one religious view?

    Thankfully, the VA policy on flag-folding recitations does not uphold such a narrow view (from http://www.legion.org/flag/folding ).

    • Volunteer honor guards are authorized to read the 13-fold flag recitation or any comparable script;

    Survivors of the deceased need to provide material and request it be read by the volunteer honor guards; and

    • Volunteer honor guards will accept requests for recitations that reflect any or no religious traditions, on an equal basis.


    One last thing: I’m not really a history buff but I do know that, among other founding fathers, Thomas Paine was very much not a Christian, but a deist. He wrote a book called The Age of Reason, which contains his views of the Bible.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Very good reply.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    If no one knows the ascribed meaning can it have any meaning? There is no documentation to some legitimate statement passed by Congress whatever that says this about the folds.

    We are emphatically not a Christian nation. Saying we are Christian does not make the US Christian. Great Britain was a Christian nation. The official church of government was and remains the Church of England. The American experience, in large part, was founded by religion dissidents who did not want a national church. They came here to escape such a system. Most the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians. Jefferson even edited the Bible to take out irrational sayings. Nowhere does the Constitution use the word Christian or any other descriptive language. Rather, the states refused to ratify the const'n without an express bar on religious establishments. Without such a guarantee, no const'n would exist.

    We had a Christian culture. Most citizens believed in Christianity yet they did not want Christianity endorsed. They show their ignorance when they claim otherwise. This is not my personal take. Scalia, Alito, Roberts, Rehniquist have authored multiple Supreme Court opinions endorsing my view. Even Justice Thomas would agree.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Reminded me of this...warning if you click the triangle you can never get those four and a half minutes back!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsCiaxPhtVY

  • chickpea
    chickpea

    SBC.....thanks for stating my points as well
    re: LOOK IT UP ON SNOPES before you hit
    forward; plenty of military personnel are
    NOT xian; hello, the founding fathers
    were hardly xian... deists is as far as it goes

  • worldtraveller
    worldtraveller

    I was wondering if this coffin contained the remains of a deceased gay soldier?

    Westboro, Your creator is ashamed.

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    Cofty, despite the warning, I think you owe me..............a drink at least.

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Sorry, but 2:10 was as far as I could get.

    Yes, I think the melding of church and state is abominable.

  • watson
    watson

    Bizzy

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Watson

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