Hi Julie:
I don't want to play the long exchange game with you. I wasn't saying you are the only person who needs growth but I seem to recall someone (you) recently calming to have grown and a wish to continue to do so etc. I was basically agreeing with you on what you have claimed to be goals for yourself.
Fair enough. I concede the point.
I don't consider myself to be better than anyone else and I didn't clash egos with you anywhere along the way. I thought your actions after Amnesian's initial rebuttal post were poor, said so and explained why. Where does my ego come into play here? By commenting on a discussion board? By pointing out your lackluster response when called out in serious fashion?
Mixed in with your fair right to feel I acted poorly, was a measure of personality attack, and that still comes through your writing somewhat. I too do not want a long set of exchanges. The problem I had with Amnesian and you is that I mistook your individual facetiousness as meant to be very serious. At a second look, I do not take it very serious anymore.
As to the second chance thing that *so* offended you Amazing, yes a second chance. It got to the point where my opinion of you sunk very low. When I found out that you and Ginny were e-mailing while she was writing "objective" things in your defense I couldn't help but doubt the degree of "objectivity" we are talking here.
I am not offended. I just think that you overestimate yourself on this. Personally, I don't need any "chances" with you muchless a second chance. I did not ask for a second chance. Whatever is in your state-of-mind is something of your own making. Rather, I now feel a sense of humor at the whole blasted saga. Kind of the way I felt when I realize I was duped by the Watch Tower religion ... escept, in this case, nothing lost, nothing gained as its no big deal.
It became apparent that there were many here who had apparently been long harboring some feelings of ill will toward you anyway, unless you have some other logical explanation for the outpouring of intense response to Amnesian's post.
They all failed to provide any substantive evidence. Claims, more claims, saying and repeating claioms over and over do not make them true, just simply run into the ground. And, what I did learn as I noted above, is that a word, phrase or sentance can be one person's salve and another's poison. So, how does one write such that they please all the people all the time? Sorry, no can do! I am not going to overhaul my entire personality to make sure that I never offend anyone. If someone has a beef with me, then point out to me with evidence what it is I have done, and I will either apologize if worng or explain to clarify. There is nothing more that can be done.
*I* was making the statement that I wanted to put my old opinion of you aside and was urging others (who may have needed a little urging) to do the same. Was hoping that indeed all your lofty talk of growth and consideration of the thoughts of others was sincere. What a chump I was, as is made clear here by your reply to me.
No, not really. You simply cannot take what you dish out to others. You love to cite my warts but fail to see or admit your own. You are not a chump, but maybe lacking in taking a dose of your own medicine.
As to my issues I take up with Island Woman, you show you know little of what you speak of Amazing, mankind and it's behaviors are basically unchanged for millenia, have a look at some history, you'll see.
I have no argument with behaviors of humans being universal. That misses the point. The point is that if I do not have a certain set of experiences, no amount of study or discussion will make me as keenly aware and understanding as those who have had a certain set of experiences. And even similar experiences are not always understood well. That is why I cite Mormons vis-a-vis JWs. As much as my ex-JW experiences in the context of a cult and its similarities to what ex-Mormons say, I can never "FULLY" understand what an ex-Mormon thinks or feels because I have not walked in their specific set of shoes.
Besides, I thought you weren't out to hijack this thread. ... Yes, you were an elder and obviously have a unique, insightful perspective of the patriarchal sort of organization (as you have clearly demonstrated time and again)...big deal....do you think you were in the only situation where a man was considered or acted superior???
You have
[never once demonstrated where I have acted superior to anyone else. As for hijacking, the last time I broke out a separate post, I was severely criticized fo doing so because this was seen as some negative style on my part. Yes, your thread was to IslandWoman. But, if you intend a private mono-e-mono with her, then email her privately. When we put it onto the open forum, it is fair game, just as my posts have taken off in direction that I did not intend.
Does Island Woman think JWs are the only people to know oppression and the life of being constantly hood-winked?
She did not say that, and your question alonmg with the direction you take in response to her demonstrates to me a level of intenectual dishonesty on your part. her point was not that JWs were the ONLY ones to ever suffer such things, but that unless one "walks in the JW shoes" there is never going to be a "FULL" understanding of what we think and feel by those who have never been there with us. yes, you may have been in a cult yourself, and unless she or others were in that cult with you, we could never "Fully" understand what you went through. Ref. back to the Mormon v JWs analogy again. We might find sympathy for one another, and find common ground, but we can never "fully" understand one another. Or to use IslandWoman's other analogy, a man can never understand what it is like to give birth ... only women who have born children can "Fully" understand.
I have known psychological abuse equal to that of a control group and have known physical abuse as a child. Was raised in the RCC (ever see a woman priest?) and came to realize that which I held so dear (my religious beliefs) was nothing but myth.
I agree. I was raised RCC myself. I became a JW as a young adult. I am no longer committed to any religion, and I am not even sure of God, whoever She/He/It might be. And, unless any JWs here also happen to have been RCC, they can never "Fully" understand what you went through. When I was being studied with by the JWs, I resented some of their inane comments about Catholicism because they just did not understand.
Yeah, it sounds like practically every other story on this forum, only difference is I didn't waste half my life schlepping mags for the corp. Perhaps my twenty years in retail and foot injuries to show for it can gain me some equal footing there.....
Julie, I have no doubt that you understand much of the JWs. You obviously take much interest in ex-JWs. You did study for 18 months, and I assume that meant you attended some meetings. So, your understanding of JWs is going to be greater than someone who has had little experience with them. Again, unless you gave up 20, 30 or more years of your life as a full fledged JW, you will always lack some level of understanding. Why can't you accept this concept? Why do you feel that you have to know everything and defend everything? Why can't you accept that you understanding of JWs is limited, just as a man has to accept that his understanding of giving birth is limited? It is no shame, is it?
Now why don't you go and answer some of the many questions that *were* directed to YOU Amazing if you have so much time on your hands, instead of wasting time proving that those who had figured you to be a pompous windbag to be right, (again)?
I answered those question, but you evidently did not read them. I can see why. You want me to bow to you and accept all your allegations 100% without question, doubt, or fear ... and follow Julie. Nope ... bveen there, done that. Were I to go on the offensive and start attacking your character over and over again and again with continual reminders of how you exhibit this or that negative trait, you would be within your right to come back and defend yourself if you felt that such attacks are unwarranted.
You started this thread and mention me. You opened yourself up to my taking exception. While you were away, I did not go around posting about Julie. I left you alone. When you returned, I let it be as well. When you mention a recent death in your life, I responded wihtout mention of other issues. But, you opened this thread ... and here I am. Sorry if you do not like it, but if you don't want to get into it with me ... then please leave me out of your threads.
