Ok , this Trinity Doctrine is messing me up (page 5)

therevealer

If witnesses insist that jesus is "a" god *** Bible Citations ***
(John 1:1) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

can they rightly say that he is an angel even if it is arch angel??

You should check out an old Aid Book or Insight On The Scriptures Book. We were taught Jesus was created as the first thing by God, that he is the only arch-angel, Michael, that he is immortal now unlike the angels and on and on it went.

thetrueone

For KristyKay, is you haven't seen this video yet it tells quite an accurate portrayal of how the Watchtower Publishing Corporation came to be.

It has always been constructed within a business profile, money obtaining and protected as such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnXXds1OWY&feature=player_embedded

therevealer

Yes designs. I am aware of all those facts. But since I have woken up I see all the problems I missed before. All I am saying here is how can they say jesus is "a god" and an angel. And the Aid book is old light, with Ray Franz tainting purity. Haha

designs

revealer-

You want their theology to make sense sorry I misunderstood Jesus to our former religious mates was a hybrid sorta like Hercules or Perseus.

therevealer

ya, you are right there. A bit of a fetch to expect that.

letusreason.letusreason

Hello,

http://www.thoughts.com/search/letusreason/

The above link deals with the Trinity [and other matters]! What the link does, is take you to my thesis papers to show the true origins of the Trinity, how Trinitarian translators omit and alter Greek and English grammar to suit their theological preconceptionms! Certain topics are ewasy to understand, others quit deep as they go into the original Greek grammar, also English grammar, plus Greek metaphysics and church history, how the apologists and church fathers embraced Greek philisophical concepts and then imbedded them in a blend of Greek and biblical, so that today Christendom's Trinitarians are a veneer of biblical Christianity, being 99% Greek in thought, though most Trinitarians are unaware of this and 1% biblical in thought! I was a Catholic Trinitarian for over 20 years, so I can see it from both sides...!

Drop me a line if you have any questions!

PS,

You can leave a mesage at the above link if you so wish!

letusreason

sd-7

I have wondered about the Trinity myself. I think it's probably safe to argue that it is a blending of cultural beliefs of that era. A Son of God (half man/half God sounds like Greek culture) saves Jews from the burden of the Law of Moses (appeals to Jews who don't want to burn up their valuable livestock anymore).

From a Biblical perspective, the apostles clearly quote a number of scriptures that are referring to Jehovah God in their original context and apply them to Jesus. But given the sum total of what is written about Jesus, I would conclude that Jesus has the authority of God (as savior, teacher, Eternal Father, Judge, King of Kings, First and Last). It's a relationship that is similar to that of an adult son with an aged father. The father has given the son control of the household, but the father still has just as much authority if he so chooses to exercise it.

Jesus was in the beginning with God, as John wrote. So then Jesus and his Father exist outside the realm of time as we know it. Jesus has his origins in a time when there was no time. Since God would've had to use part of himself to form Jesus, Jesus has essentially always existed at least in the form of energy.

Holy spirit could be a person, power, or both, really. A force cannot be grieved or bear witness to anything. But a person cannot 'fill up' another person. So maybe Holy Spirit is both a person and a power--or a person using power. Or it's just a power that has been personified at times, maybe even a semi-sentient power kind of like the Force in Star Wars, if you will. A conscious power that operates to exercise the will of God. But it doesn't receive any praise or glory in the heavenly places, at least not in scripture, so I doubt it's actually a person in the same way that the Father and the Son are.

The Trinity is not like string cheese, even assuming it was true (which I don't think it is). Jesus is not the same person as his Father, he is a separate person, and the Holy Spirit is also separate. But while all three of them do operate to carry out God's will, worship goes to the Father through the Son. Any glory given to the Son is given to the Father as well.

I'm sure that the Hebrews were monotheists, as far as I can tell from the Old Testament, and I don't believe it was Jesus' intent to change that notion. If it was, he would explained the Trinity explicitly himself, yet there is no record of him doing so. And if there's no record of him doing so, we can assume that somewhere along the way, men came up with that idea.

Paul said there is one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ. From that, I gather that a Trinity was probably not the general belief, but at the very least, and from Paul's letters and John's letters this is clear, there were a significant number of individuals teaching very different ideas about Jesus--maybe even radically different. So it probably didn't take long for all manner of ideas about Jesus to spread and lead to the confusion about all of this that we see today.

I don't believe that the Father requires us to do anything more than approach Him through the Lord Jesus Christ. It gets confusing, but as Paul said, it ain't clear now, like lookin' into a metal mirror, but then (at some unspecified time in the future--which may be not at all, ever, for all we know) we will have it all cleared up.

I wouldn't worry about it--as a Klingon once said, perhaps the words mean more than the man.

Oh, and yes, there are other religions that reject the Trinity. Like the Christadelphians for instance. I went to their church once. Lovely people, really. No Trinity, hellfire, or immortality of the soul, no military service, even believe there'll be a Kingdom on earth. Beyond that, it gets a little weird in a way that makes them probably just as much worth avoiding as the JWs, though.

Anyway, just read the Bible itself and try to glean what you can from it, and de Lawd will take care of de rest!

--sd-7

heathen

I don't believe he was Gods equal since he is mentioned as having grown in wisdom and the fact he has no super natural powers until his baptism at the jordan. He recognized the temple as his fathers house and not his own . He had to die an equal to adam not God in order to release us from the bondage of adamic sin and allow for the gentiles to live in equality with the jews . The blood line was corrupted from adam on , thus the animal sacrifices and blood used to atone for sin , now it's the blood of christ used to atone with .

PSacramento

I don't believe he was Gods equal since...

Equal in NATURE with God, His Father.

Ok , this Trinity Doctrine is messing me up

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