The Improbability of God

by gravedancer 41 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I think you are speculating.

    How come you don't believe in quite adequately founded evolutionary theories, and yet persist in unfounded speculation so as to keep your faith in god?

    Sorry to give you a hard time D.

    You use some of the same logic I did, and I am making the assumption you are at the same stage of realisation that I was when I used your logic to retain belief in god...

    As to the correctness of your post, natural selection and survival of the fitest are just ONE of a variety of evolutionary mechanisms. The fact you suggest that more factors need considering is a big giveaway. There are loads of factors that have been theorised about, and I am surprised you don't know some of them, given you've been trying to educate yourself about non-god origins.

    I think it is unwise to critisize something you've obviously not even investigated it adequately! If I were to make comments here about the Bible from a position of ignorance, I would be lambasted for it by those who know more than me. Consider yourself lambasted in a friendly, fluffy way!

    Population expansion is limited by resources; we clever monkies are capable of great utilisation of resources, and have not reached the point where population is limited (globally) by resources running out. Other species can't cope with finding new resources and are far more limited by shrtages.

    That's why we are at the top of the pyramid; we're very good at surviving, and that's because of our big brains.

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Abby,
    Thanks for the imput.
    BBUT:

    As to the correctness of your post, natural selection and survival of the fitest are just ONE of a variety of evolutionary mechanisms. The fact you suggest that more factors need considering is a big giveaway. There are loads of factors that have been theorised about, and I am surprised you don't know some of them, given you've been trying to educate yourself about non-god origins.

    I don't doubt there are more mechanisms nor was I implying, I didn't know any.
    But I think you otta tell it to the evolutionist on this board because it seems to me, that's the way they think only. Except Mindchild. Now I'm not saying I know what everybody is thinking but most evolutionest seem to always focus on this one mechanism only when it comes to natural selection.
    Don't get me wrong I make no claim to be studied up on the subject, I'm just a average guy trying to figure out for my own satifaction what's the truth.

    I think it is unwise to critisize something you've obviously not even investigated it adequately!
    Yes your thinking is correct. I don't think I have been critical in a bad way, more like a test the theory way. Have I not changed my mind? Yes.

    If I were to make comments here about the Bible from a position of ignorance, I would be lambasted for it by those who know more than me. Consider yourself lambasted in a friendly, fluffy way!
    Being lambasted by you is alway a pleasure AB.
    I never really take offense at any ones lambasting of myself, I'm not that important. So we can banter mano to mano please don't refrain from correcting any wrong of mine, and please don't take offense at me even if I get a little OK very direct,.. that's what friends are for.

    dave

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    D: you're alright you are...

    I think you'll find that there's a good half dozen regulars here who are pretty good with evolutionary theory (i.e., well above High School level), and I'm nowhere near the top of that heap in my understanding. Have you ever checked Jan H's review of the Creator book? It's on the Watchtower Observer site.

    I don't know the US's education system that well, but if it's similar to the British one, then you don't get the latest stuff, or the variety of stuff that you get a College.

    Creationist sites vary from the down-right hysterical (Adnoai quoted one... christiananswers...? the other day, and I've had to avoid the temptation of ripping the deceitful, inaccurate, selective and downright WRONG information presented there to shreds, as I'm too busy at work) to the clever but wrong. And mostly, they are aimed at people who haven't been to College and studied Biology or some such, and perhaps are not that experienced at analysis.

    They present a seemingly sound case. Unless you know enough to spot the mistakes or misrepresentations of data, or the bits they've left out (the creation answers site is great at that, mentioning things that they would wish to be true (dinosaurs co-existing with man) but providing no evidence of the assertations (unless it's buried deeper in the site, and even then, I bet you I can refute it with one hand behind my back), so you can be lulled into believeing what you want to believe, and into believeing that scientists are under some strange dellusion.

    Then, bright eyed and bushey tailed, the Creationist visitors to these dens of ignorance trot along to places like this, and act as thought they have a personal understanding of Evolutionary theory that has lead them to reject it as false. When in fact they have read some stuff that can be ripped to shreds by a decent College student of the appropriate discipline, or someone who's put in the time and effort to read enough to understand the arguements and theories involved.

    And people wonder why the evolutionist sometimes come over as arrogant; people spouting errant nonsense can make you act that way!

    Anyway, as you know, the point I was making was that trying to come up with cute elaborations of the theory of god is fine, if you are happy doing that. But if you've not fully investigated the theory of evolution, I personally don't get WHY.

    That doesn't mean you are wrong in yourself to do it or that you shouldn't do it. It means that I don't get why you do it.

    I'd decide whether it existed before I figured out the colour of its underwear!!

    Of course, evolution and god are not, theoretically, mutually exclusive. But, knowing that evolution is a pretty well established fact, with a variety of theories explaining the mechanisms, is very important.

    It means one can liberate oneself from being bound to a book, and can look for god as you find him, not as some bloke 2000 years ago wanted you to find him. Free yourself from slavish devotion to texts, and actually be able to take what is relevant from them, what is meaningful and true to you. Rather than wonder about what the hell John the Divine Mushroom Man was babbling on about.

    Or decide that the whole god thing is the biggest confidence scam in history and have nothing to do with it.

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Ab,

    I know I should study evolution more and I probably will.
    For now though I engrossed in phsyics, and quantum theory, they offer in my estimation a more solid mathimatical reasoning than some of the slants of evolution theory.
    Don't get me wrong I believe in evolution just not all the different variations of the theme.
    In fact the study of the theories of relitivity has lead me to exceptance of the theory of evolution, because i see very good logic in these theories.
    I feel mans knowledge will one day lead many to the Christian beleif in God.

    I do thank you for your post and hope to hear more from you,.. negative or other wise,.. I do not like Yes men they are so very borring.
    People who think for themselves are people that make a diference.

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • thewiz
    thewiz

    In Walt-Disney's Goofy's voice:

    ah-yep we're all just to stupit to unnerstand such a hard thingy. I jus wanna know how I can cook up that 'possum stew and fixen' the whole in ma' boots.

    Youse guys are such geniuses, Imma glad your in charge.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    wiz: Yet another example of your lousy attitude. Grow up, you neither intimidate, amuse or impress anyone. Well, maybe some people, which might be why you do it, but not me.

    Engage in the debate, by all means. Rather that than your ignorant cat-calls from the side line.

    Why do people talking about complicated stuff make you feel so inadequate? No one would know you felt that way if you kept civil fingers on your keyboard; this way, you just show yourself up.

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • DanielHaase
    DanielHaase

    Those who do not feel we are still evolving haven't ever visited south Mississippi.

  • thewiz
    thewiz

    Bacterium flagellum

    Icons of Evolution - Wells, Jonathan;Regnery:2000

    Signs of Intelligence - Dembski, William A., Kushiner, James M.; Brazos Press:2001

    Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution - Behe, Michael J.; Touchstone/Simon & Schuster:1996

    -------

    Abaddon - I didn't know I had to conform to the dictates of a highly intelligent person like yourself.

    If I want to use language the way I want to use it, to get my point across, then I can do it. I could write stuff up that uses big words like you like to do, but why should I?

    I find it more pleasent to show you guys up with humor, that's humour to you, and/or sarcasm. God forbid if I misspel a word too. My credibility goes out the window then.

    Ever read Jonathan Swift's books -He got under people's skin too, by using humor, sarcasm, and most of all satire.

    People's richness is their diversity but you want me to conform, use language that doesn't insult your intelligence, much the same way the borg wants people to conform

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Oh, is it that you can dish it up but not take it? Fuck you Abaddon is not the witty reply I would expect from a lover of Swift, nor would a lover of Swift be so offended by applicable and called for sarcasm. I suppose you like Wilde as well?

    Anyway, read the reply in the female ejaulation thread, see what you think, eh?

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • gravedancer
    gravedancer

    I am fast beginning to see why in the end the only response from Farkel was stuff like "you are a fuckwit or a dipshit".

    To those of you who replied in earnestness on the thread thanks. It is nice to know that there are thinking people who can discuss things like grownups.

    If the God-people cannot respond with rational thinking are we to assume they are incapable or that they are still brain washed?

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