Are they really that bad??? (page 14)

Chalam

Scripture please!

John 14:26 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 16:13 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

9 However, as it is written:

“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:

16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ.

1 John 2:18-27 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

Warning Against Antichrists

18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.

26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Footnotes:

1 John 2:20 Some manuscripts and you know all things

All one needs is the bible and the instruction of the Holy Spirit. He can instruct us regarding ALL things, even non spiritual stuff :) Blessings in Christ, Stephen

designs

So Stephen why did the NT writers get things so horribly wrong and tell such blantant lies about Judaism if they were led by the true Bat Kol.

cantleave

just out of interest Debator, I take it you are not an elder. I was an elder for 8 years. One of the reasons I became disillusioned was because at elders meetings the bible was used even less than at the meetings. We used to refer constantly to "the policy files". The organisation is NOT bible led, but led by the policies of men.

Chalam

Mark 7:6-13 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”

9 And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ 11 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Blessings in Christ,

Stephen

Mad Sweeney

Part of what helped free my wife's mind was a "shepherding call" where the elders used their own ideas + a magazine article (WT or Awake! I don't recall) but NO SCRIPTURES. When they left she was like, . A month or so later we started studying Bible ONLY during Family Worship. Then we were on our way to Christian Freedom!

designs

Stephen, one of the classic mistakes Fundamentalist Christians make in reading the Bible is they cannot or will not distinguish between an individual criticism and an en masse criticism. Its really incredible but not when you who beleive in the 'Apostle Paul' gulp down his own Anti-Semetic en masse diatribes.

The above quote from the 'Jesus' character of the Mark's Gospel shows that this person was capable of making the same mistake and yet he taught the same Beliefs of the Pharisees he condemned, talk about a hypocrite.

So wrong, so wrong.

mouthy

Debator...This scripture is good enough for me ...What about you?( From YOUR BIBLE) Deut 18:20-22
"However the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods,that prophet must die.And in case you should say in your heart :How shall we know the word that Jehovah has spoken?" when the prophet
speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true,that is the word that Jehovah did not speak
.With presumptuousness the prophet spoke.You must not get frightenned at him.
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I was a pusher of the WT teachings ...I can tell you MANY!!!many false teaching they published...So stop being afraid
Ask the TRUE Creator to teach you HIS truths... But dont listen to men ,pray for the Teacher who is that????
THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!!!!!

PSacramento

Out of 100 children born almost all later on - after they grow up - waste their lives by not believing in God properly.They will die sooner or later forever . While any child that died earlier still may have a chance to rise in the Paradise and believe in God after growing up and live forever.

That is without a doubt one of the dumbest and most hateful things I have heard in a long time what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

ReallyTrulyAthena

"This is an anti-witness site you will only get hatred and bitterness from the majority on here against witnesses"

*sigh* I'm late to commenting on this thread, but I'll give it a go.

So, are you a reader of hearts then, Debator? Oh wait, you perhaps may tell us that you're not, but have "proof" of said behavior from some posts/posters here. To be sure (and considering everyone's individual experiences with the WTS), people may be angry or bitter or have what have you...but...why don't you seek to understand the "whys" instead of just merely labeling people? That may not be your intent (and I'm not trying to read your heart), but it sure feels that way. Think about it.

Human beings tend to be a little more nuanced than just having such broadly-painted emotions, IMHO. There's no if/then deal going on about those who are no longer involved with the WTS ("If John Q. Witness has left the society, why then...that means he HATES the JW's! And Jehovah! And Jesus! Yeah, that's it.") But by saying such, I don't want to "return the favor" and cast a blanket statement back re: the JWs (as if it's 'gospel' about those still in), because honestly I don't believe that necessarily to be the case, nor is that how I operate. My Dad is still a JW. If he's happy in his beliefs, that's his choice; I respect that and yet on the flip side, my choice is to respectfully agree to disagree. Wanna tell me I'm bitter and that I hate my own father? Try it - but I don't. I love him unconditionally. What I 'hate' is the WTS for their behaviors/actions of issuing unloving mandates that cause undue suffering of individuals and break-ups of family units.

At any rate - back to the thread: Anon4 - welcome. Keep investigating; keep asking questions. You've been given a lot of good, reasoned advise from many posters on this thread, from folks who truly care and want to help. Keep reading your Bible (and don't ever lose the love of learning new things from it), use critical thinking skills, use your powers of observation and discernment. I don't have the answers, but for me, the joy is in the search and knowing that I have the freedom and right to keep searching as I feel fit. I hope you find the community you are looking for...blessings and peace to you

RTA

mrsjones5

just out of interest Debator, I take it you are not an elder. I was an elder for 8 years.

Debator could never be an elder...no penis. *snicker*

Are they really that bad???