Disappointed by JW Visit

by Cold Steel 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  troubled mind

  The ministry has been 'dumbed down' quite a bit in my lifetime . I remember as a kid I knew how to really use my Bible and debate scriptures (of course using WT logic)

  Slowly around the 1980's things kept getting simplier until now a days most Witnesses that come to your door couldn't find an answer on their own if their life depended upon it .

  They have become so dependant on stating exactly what the Society prints they no longer have any thinking ability left .The Reasoning Book is a good example of that ....no longer did you have to think on your own when a question of faith came up ..you just turned to the topic in question and read the canned response from the book .

  I agree it is because so many in the field do have good Bible sense and have the internet .The Society does not want the inexperienced publishers becoming stumbled by thinking individuals . So leave a magazine and run .
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  caliber

  Slowly around the 1980's things kept getting simpler until now a days most Witnesses that come to your door couldn't find an answer on their own if their life depended upon it .

  The Society does not want the inexperienced publishers becoming stumbled by thinking individuals . So leave a magazine and run .

  The ministry has been 'dumbed down' quite a bit in my lifetime

  Only the dumbed down can stay with it... if you got deep into thinking over the years , you are most likely on boards like this one !!

  In the 1990's many people had the Reasoning book sewn right into the bible... thus your easy caned answers at your finger tips

  plus you could impressed the householder (many likely thought you were thumbing through your Bible)

  They have no real communication skills. They don't know how to engage in honest debate because all they have been taught is to attack other belief systems.....Sabs

  Here is a truth that is foreign to most JW's I'd rather be hurt by the truth, than protected by a lie
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  Ding

  Cold Steel,

  I'm not convinced that the JWs you talked to won't be back.

  If they don't return, they probably have concluded amongst themselves that you want to argue with them rather than being open to converting.
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  BluesBrother

  Back in the "day," they were much better versed than they are now. Their arguments weren't any better back then, but at least they knew how to handle a curve ball

  Yes, that about says it all. The Organisation has indeed dumbed down its study for J W's so, of course, they do not know as much. It depends who you get, of course. My Missus would lap up your questions and fire back with her answers..all baloneyif you think about it, but at least a sprited debate.

  They don't make 'em like that any more....
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  Ding

  Designs,

  In many of your posts, you come across as an angry person who believes most of what the Watchtower teaches but not the Society's claims to be the FDS, God's organization, etc.

  I'd appreciate it if you would start a separate thread in which you explain the basics of what you believe and tell us why you are angry so much of the time.

  If you've already done this, please tell me where to find the post and I'll go read it.
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  Think About It

  How could someone have JW's come to their house, and then be dissappointed after they leave?

  Think About It
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  sabastious

  The Reasoning Book is a good example of that ....no longer did you have to think on your own when a question of faith came up ..you just turned to the topic in question and read the canned response from the book .

  Indeed. I think what has resulted is a bunch of drones. I never lived "back in the day" but I would wager that JWs were more fiery and zealous about their faith, because they had to get to their conclusions more on their own.

  Now it's just "turn to page 92"

  ^ "Wasn't that great! Question. Answered!"

  -Sab
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  Nickolas

  Why did Trinitarians slaughter and subjugate humans on 6 continents, steal their land and force them by threat of death to accept your version of God.

  It seems to me, designs, that you are disdainful of the trinity doctrine but nevertheless religious? I agree, the trinity doctrine is nonsense, but citing the atrocities of crusading trinitarians is like drawing attention to one particular wart on a toad. You don't have to look any farther than the old testament to find atrocities of the most heinous nature committed by non-trinitarians, like the genocidal slaughters wrought by Abraham, Joshua and Moses, if only to touch on a chosen few, all at the behest of a loving god. Fundamentalist Muslims (who don't believe in the trinity, either) flying planes into skyscrapers, undertaking "ethnic cleansing" or beheading women who have dared to expose an ankle, Tamil Hindus (multiple gods) blowing themselves up in the midst of market crowds, paganistic National Socialists (non trinitarians, all) incinerating millions.

  Maybe this is just the pot and kettle conversation. All religions have the blood of innocents on their hands.
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  Cold Steel

  cold steel, you mention the following:

  I pointed out the "other" verses associated with Armageddon (the ones showing that it would be located at Jerusalem).

  If you would be so kind as to site these scriptures or to send them to me via a pm I would be most appreciative. tks in advance.

  The Jews and Christians both have similar views about Armegeddon. The way Armageddon is supposed to go down is with the coming of a vast army coming from the North and down on Jerusalem. Ezekiel 38 describes the force that will be brought to bear, and the Lord actually addresses Gog before destroying him. When the great sixth seal earthquake occurs, many people think it will result in the destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the mosque. It's then that they'll finally build their temple. This would cause many nations to descend on Jerusalem; but whatever the reason, the "beast" mentioned in Revelation will come down on the holy city with a vast army made up of all the nations of the earth. (See Ezek. 38 and Zechariah 12-14)

  At that point the Lord will raise up two prophets who will use supernatural powers against the beast. They'll bring down fire from heaven and their ministry will last for three and a half years. After that, they'll be killed and the Jews will be overrun and much of the city will fall. After three and a half days, the two prophets will be resurrected and ascend into heaven to meet the coming Christ (see Rev. 11:2-7). An earthquake will rock the earth and the Mount of Olives will cleave in twain, and the Jews will run into the valley created by the quake. When Jesus/Jehovah descends into their midst, one of the Jews will ask, "What are these wounds in thy hands?" Ane He will reply, "Those are the wounds I received in the House of my friends." Then they'll know that their forefathers killed their Messiah, and the land shall go into mourning. Jesus will then enter the East Gate of the temple as prophecied.

  Armageddon will not involve the Jehovah's Witnesses. The scriptures indicate that the nations "round about" Jerusalem that had taken part in the battle, like Egypt, will initially refuse to come up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of the Tabernacles (probably because it will be difficult for them to give up Islam right away). But such nations will be visited with plague and famine until they comply (see Zechariah 14:16-17).

  That's basically it. The Jews mistook the Romans as this great force, but they were mistaken. Judah, according to scriptures, first had to be dispersed, then gathered from the four corners of the earth (see Isaiah 11).

  The JW rendition of Armageddon being a worldwide battle is absurd. No Christian or Jewish scholar sees it that way and that's where the guys who visited me choked. They recognized part of it, but left out Jerusalem entirely.
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  steve2

  Back in the "day," they were much better versed than they are now. Their arguments weren't any better back then, but at least they knew how to handle a curve ball.

  Yes, I agree. Modern-day Jehovah's witnesses don't even bother to give a show of appearing to know their Bible well. I attribute it to a relative lack of "interest" in open discussions but also appalling ignorance and lack of curiosity about how they are perceived by others.

  Dull minds have no need to inquire.

  When I was a kid in the 1950s, the older JWs really knew how to sell their beleifs and would go out of their way to demonstrate through Scripture why they believed what they believed. yes, they were just as misled as the current crop, but at least they fully owned their beliefs and did their best to defend them.