BREAKING NEWS on www.jw-media.org

by Wrong Way 126 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jam

  just n from bethel, I ask the question because, seriously people have you really broke up

  from the control mechanism that you say you"ve broken free from when we left the JW.

  You tell this to A grandmother attending her daughter funeral and told by her grandkids her dead

  daughter kids, you may attend but remerber you can not speak to no one, even your great great

  kids whom you never met. You tell this to A father or mother that have never met their grandkids and have not talk too

  their son or daughter in 11yrs. For me my legacy is my kids. The borg. break that up. It never end for us that have family members still in.

  If you have family members still in and the policy remain the same in regards to shunning you will feel the effect.
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Bethel: I mean what I think everybody's hoping for is that ASAP that everyone stops believing in the JW religion - by force or any other means. But that just will never happen, like undercover said. But, 20, 30, or 50 years from now many will eventually admit that their religious beliefs, particularly those of JWs were completely messed up.

  I absolutely agree with JNFB when I say education as in a long term plan, not a quick fix. Teaching children critical thinking would be an effective tool that doesn't impinge on human rights like a ban. The logistics may be difficult (ie, BD's comment that JWs would take kids out) but I'm envisioning a curriculum that absolutely requires critical thinking courses.

  If you are at all unclear as to what true critical thinking encompasses, you'd be doing yourself a huge favor to look into it. Here's an awesome intro to it (and I'll give someone a cookie if they'll embed it).

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg

  I could very well be wrong but it seems that many of the worlds biggest problems spring from an epidemic of ignorance and misinformation. Religion is a major carrier and one's environment as a child plays a large role in that, too. Parents pass on dogmatic views, based on ignorance or a failure to question, and then it becomes a cycle. Too few children grow up and break that cycle.

  Critical thinking, to me, would help solve much of this for future generations if we teach it early and often.
• 

  brotherdan

  We have been teaching critical thinking for YEARS though. It's not a recent study. Education must paired with active and very SPECIFIC training.

  For example, there are Doctors, Lawyers, and some incredibley intelligent people in the JW organization. They went to college. They know how to think critically. However, that was not enough. What was missing? It wasn't intelligence. It was specific instruction and warning in how cults work. It has to go beyond simple training that can be applied for all. The WT will snuff everything out that does not agree with them. College is a dangerous place due to it's teaching of critical thinking, so they rule out college for the majority of JWs. So there has to be MORE than simple education.
• 

  just n from bethel

  BD - I was being nice when I said muslim sects. I think Islam as whole has more serious issues than JWs ever will - but that is for another day. See what Skeeter just said.

  You said "Until it becomes dangerous even to their own members." - the question is then - who is to decide this? You and I?

  If you came out of the religion on your own, and I also as well as many others, then are we really so arrogant to think that we just got lucky, that we were smarter than the others? This certainly leads to interesting ethical and political science debates. But the bottom line is I don't want a government to tell me what religion is good and bad - I want to figure that out myself - hopefully without the risk of imprisonment, tortuous detainment, and other soviet-era treatments.

  The three issues that Skeeter raised are what Russia is basing their ban on. The third one " negative talk about other religions" - Uhhh seriously, what religion doesn't do this to some extent - but the day you and I are denied freedom of speech to talk bad about other religions is day I hope I never see. Sucks to be Russian I guess - unless you're orthodox.

  The other matter is disfellowshipping. Problem is many religions practice a form of it. As much as it sucks, is hurtful, emotionally painful, - proving it is a life-threatening danger in a court of law will be almost impossible IMO.don't get me wrong - the JWs would be better to change this and I hate the shunning practice as well as the entire unscriptual judical process.

  Blood transfusions, you can address this without banning the religion outright - see Bulgaria as well as many other countries like South Africa that pretty much take the matter away from parents and prevent overruling medical professionals.

  Anyway - that's my take. I simply am trying to leave the absolute world of JW dogmaticism. I will never support anything remotely like their style of beliefs and control. Therefore I would be a hypocrite if I supported a government that wanted to be even more hard-core in their methods to control people. If the ECHR allows Russia to proceed with the ban, I feel sorry not just for JWs there, but for all the Russian people.
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." - Thoreau
• 

  Aussie Oz

  Unfortunatly the people of russia wont get 'education' on this

  nor will the JWs in russia

  the reality is

  Brooklyn crooks will sit in their ivory towers telling the R&F to write to russia in protest and assure the russians that this persection means they are jehovahs special people.

  the end is nigh...again

  oz
• 

  brotherdan

  Who decides what is dangerous, JNFB? Have you read Stephen Hasaans book on mind control? Who was to say that Charles Mansons cult was dangerous? Was it only dangerous AFTER the murders took place? No. There were specific mind control techniques that were being used.

  Some of these same techniques have and are being used by JWs today. Psychology has advanced greatly in its understanding of cult like behaviour. Stephen Hasaan presents 8 points that apply to all destructive cults. The WT practices EVERY SINGLE ONE!

  If you would be interested in reading it, I'd be happy to email the ebook to you.
• 

  jwfacts

  Banning a religion is a dangerous precedent for human rights. It would be better to ban specific practices and apply it to all religions. The government has a right to specify certain behavior as illegal and then prosecute against it, such as for murder. Specific laws that could be applied to the Watchtower Society could be regarding:

  • Enforced Shunning, particularly of family, as a violation of human rights
  • Forbidding blood for children
  • Intolerant information in the Magazines

  Then attack the religion financially:

  1. If a child dies refusing blood, the government could sue the Watchtower Society as the cause of the refusal.
  2. Examine each issue of the Watchtower and then ban it or force a reprint with edits

  That way you would see the Watchtower suffer financially which would affect growth, or it would lead to them changing policies and becoming more mainstream.
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  We have been teaching critical thinking for YEARS though. It's not a recent study. Education must paired with active and very SPECIFIC training.

  What does critical thinking mean to you, BD? To me, it is a means to intellectual humility and honesty... the ability to say "I don't know". But only if applied personally, right?

  I guess I should take my own medicine and clarify that, in my little realm of experience, if it had been taught early and often, I believe I would've been equipped to find my way out of the organization much sooner. I didn't learn it in primary or secondary.
• 

  brotherdan

  Also JNFB, you ask what religion does not condemn other religions. This is the key...other religions are not "organizations" like JWs are. It's something that seemst to be difficulte for new exjws to understand. They tend to think in the "Our group vs their group" sort of mentality. Yes, there are other PEOPLE in other religions that feel like all other people in all other religions will be destroyed. For example, look at the West Boro Baptist church. They are preaching hatred to MANY different sorts of people and religions. Should they have the freedom of speech to appear at a funeral for a dead American solider and shout that he went to hell? No, I think that verges on hatred. But because they do it does not justify others doing it.

  Your other point is about disfellowshiping. Your argument is "Other religons do it." That's not a valid excuse. My experience has been that MOST RELIGIONS do not practice this to the extreme that JWs practice it.

  I go back to my original argument about countries with nuclear programs. When they don't conform to the UN's policies they are sanctioned. Why is this not practiced with religion?

  Let me say that I am not anti religion. I'm not an atheist. I'm a Christian. However, I do not think that the way the governements have treated religion has been good enough. They have not sanctioned it so that the corrupt are unable to take over and benefit from other's whole hearted beliefs. I also apply this to the WTS. They are one of the worst culprits, IMO.