BREAKING NEWS on www.jw-media.org

by Wrong Way 126 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  brotherdan

  I agree with the education to a point...however...

  Education is not a solve all. All it would take is for the WTS to produce an article about the sort of "education" that was being taught by the Russian government. I guarantee you that if they requested it, 90% of JWs in Russia would have their kids out of school in a minute.

  Just playing devils advocate here...What about evolution? That sort of education taught in schools very rarely is the reason that kids leave the organization. They leave for other expressions of their own cognitive dissonance. So while education is valuable, I can't think that it would ever be the SOLUTION to it all. However, what about sanctions? If they want to publish something, it has to be sanctioned by the governement? That's the way we handle other nuclear powers...
• 

  undercover

  You can't govern beliefs. And you can't fix stupid.

  If people want to believe that an invisible man in the sky created a man and a woman 6000 years ago, they're gonna believe it, no matter the education system used.

  And if people are easily influenced by flim flam artists, then whether it's JWs, Glenn Beck or Colonel Harvey and his Indian Elixir, some gullible goobs are gonna buy it.

  Ban drugs and people will still use them. Ban alcohol and people will still brew/distill it. Ban "harmful" religions and people will still be drawn to the underground version of it.

  I like the education angle to a degree, but even that ain't gonna keep people from joining cults. Just like sex ed didn't stop teen pregnancies and drug ed didn't stop drug use.
• 

  donuthole

  I don't want to be a brokend record but I think the WT has done a pretty good spin job on what the issue is really about. The question is, does the Watchtower, or any religion, have the right to publicly publish and peddle literature that denigrates or infringes on the free exercise of religion by the citizens of Russia. This has absolutely nothing to do with the personal religious practice and beliefs which are protected.

  Now here in the USA we have a strong tradition of freedom of press which allows for even the most hateful propoganda to be produced and distributed. Some of the European countries are moving toward laws which ban "hate speech" as a way to better safeguard civil liberties. The Watchtower literature has been characterized as "extremist" and in violation of Russian law because it routinely attacks other faiths; hence the ban.
• 

  just n from bethel

  BD - personally I think you underestimate education. It may not happen all at once, but the teaching of evolution and the method in which evolutionary theories have been formed will be part of the overall thought base of any individual. Add that to world history and many other concepts, especially at advanced levels, and you finally have something worthwhile that governments could push for. Do that and you have people that can reason and conlcude on critical matters. But even if that's not enough for a large amount of Witnesses - so what.

  People should be allowed to persist in their beliefs, to the extent it does not infringe on other human rights. Individual laws on specific dangerous activities could be put in place but banning one religion - will inevitably lead to banning more religions and persecuting of people for just what people believe. If what people believe is so stupid and wrong, education is the best counter attack, not bans that would lead to a detioration of human rights at the very least.

  I mean you woke up right? You figured it out. I figured it out. So can others. If they choose not to - what gives me the right to force them to do otherwise? Supporting a government ban on a religion just because we don't believe it anymore is nucking futs. Worse - it leads to very dangerous precedents, and as individuals, it is a messed up way of thinking - and quite reminiscent of supporting the thought control that we despise so much from the WT.
• 

  brotherdan

  Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong. But doesn't freedom of speech END when you ENCOURAGE someone to violate a law? For example, if I said, "All Jews should die!!!", wouldn't that be defended by freedom of speech. But if I said, "You all need to kill the Jews!!!", wouldn't that be considered a crime?

  How is the WT different. If the governement says that young men, if drafted for the war, should report for duty, and the WTS says, "If you are drafted, you must refuse!", how is that freedom of speech?

  I can apply that to the Russia situation. If they FORCE you or ENCOURAGE you to disobey the law, is that not a violation of freedom of religion AND freedom of speech?
• 

  just n from bethel

  If you want to live under a government that says one religion can't criticize other religions or think of itself as the right religion, then be my guest. If that's "extreme" then we must be from different planets. Even if the majority consider it "extreme" - so what? I want the right to be extreme - Extreme by definition doesn't mean that it infringes on others' rights. What next - ban extreme sports?

  Again to reiterate - If it was not for the "extreme" criticism and analysis the WT does on other religions, I may not have started using my self-educated mind to perform the same ananlysis on the JW religion. But thanks to the constant reminders we tell others to examine their beliefs, I took that advice and applied it to my religion. I found it lacking. I don't need a government to think for me - maybe some people here do. But not me.
• 

  OUTLAW

  If you want to live under a government that says one religion can't criticize

  other religions or think of itself as the right religion, then be my guest......Justnfrombethel

  Criticism is fine..

  The WBT$ preaches and supports an Idea..That members of other religions should be killed..

  That's a hate crime..Hate crimes should be punished..

  ..................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  brotherdan

  If you want to live under a government that says one religion can't criticize other religions or think of itself as the right religion, then be my guest.

  To be clear, it's not being critical of religon that I have a problem with. I'm saying that EVERYONE THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOURS WILL BE DESTROYED (INCLUDING THEIR CHILDREN), should not be allowed to force people to believe this. But they even go farther. If you DON'T believe this, then they will expell you and you will be killed too. That is not religion. That is not allowing for freedom for all. That is destructive mind control. If I do not think like you, then I deserve to die. That's worse than the Nazis.
• 

  just n from bethel

  BD with your specific example, both supposed quotes about the Jews could be indeed uttered and printed as far as I know under freedom of speech. But it doesn't really compare to your other example of promoting conscientous objection. Furthermore I'll doubt you'll ever find those exact words from the WT. Ghandi promoted a pretty similar form of pacifism as do many other religions. I think it's safe to say that if a government bans an entire religion based on things that many don't like of believe in - they'll have to go down a road that puts people more into an Orwellian world than the Watchtower itself.

  Undercover - I too agree that education can only do so much. I mean what I think everybody's hoping for is that ASAP that everyone stops believing in the JW religion - by force or any other means. But that just will never happen, like undercover said. But, 20, 30, or 50 years from now many will eventually admit that their religious beliefs, particularly those of JWs were completely messed up.

  Some here may think that some good may come from enacting a ban that leads to very real persecution on our friends and family. But more damage to the whole of society will come from that path than any little good that may come from such a Draconian method.

  Seriously people, have you really woken up from the control mechanisms that you say you've broken free from when you left the JWs?
• 

  jam

  just n from bethel; No we do not want old friends and family members in prisons, but we would

  love for the Bethel leaders too ROT in prison. What effect would it have on the out come, if we all from

  (Canada, U.S. Mexico, etc.) wrote letters to the Russia gov., How this cult have cause A break down

  in families. Thousands of ex-members have been effected by this group. What other religious group

  can boast ,, we have members who have not seen or talk to daughter, son , mother, father, brother

  and sister for years, why because they do not beleive our lies . We are the Supreme Authority on

  earth today. Sorry I got carried away.