Question for Titus (page 4)

inbetween

Titus: its up to you, but personally I´d like you to stay. Why ? This board is very interesting, I learned incredibly much, and I made some very beneficial internet-acquaintances. This board also benefits from its variety. IMHO it needs all kind of opinions, from bitter x-JW, to inactive ones, to those of the conscious class, even those apologists (like debator and BANE). All their differing opinions, experiences together helps to find out the facts and also the path for oneself.

A little remark to your assessment about 97% right, 3% wrong.

Its probably difficult to determine a percentage. Is it by the number of statements ? How would other Christian religions perform on such a scale ?

maybe catholics are 60% right, and 40% wrong ? What about babstists ? 80 : 20 ratio ?

When does it start to become the "truth" ? With 90 % ? or 95 %?

How do you weigh certain things ? for example: Witnesses are right about trinity ? but wrong about 1914 ? What is more important ?

or another example: witnesses are right about hellfire ? but wrong about blood issue ? what is heavier ? what caused more good or more harm ?

If somebody was always scared about hellfire, becoming a JW might freed him from that, so he might view this as something important. On the other hand, what about somebody who lost his loved ones, because he/she refused a blood fraction, that is now allowed ? What counts more for him ?

So to asses how much witnesses are right or wrong, it very much depends on the method of counting and even more so on personal experiences

Little Imp

inbetween I think you have made some very pertinent statements, particularly your last three paragraphs. Thank you.

It all helps to put perspective on things inasmuch does one choose a religion because it "fits" one's lifestyle and what one wants to think.

During my lifetime I have visited many churches regularly prior to going to the KH. One of the main differences I found was that JWs actively bad mouth other religions on the platform when the person speaking certainly should not be preaching to vulnerable people in this way. OK everyone is entitled to their own opinion on anything but someone in a position of trust, i.e. the preacher should be setting a good example to those he is teaching. In my book attempting to take the speck out of someone else's eye when there is a plank is one's own is unchristian.

Also, if there are matters with which one does not agree you have to pretend to agree otherwise they accuse you of being apostate or something worse.

I also found that though they talk about love and their love to other congregations etc. it is all talk and no action. One can tell if someone loves them by the way they are treated, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

As you can, your words have been very through provoking for me.

Thank you.

LI

AGuest

Dearest Titus, please to you! May I respond? Thank you!

I see only one thing wrong with your statement, that:

I don't think that 3% of B$s is worth to throw out everything else.

It would be the part where Christ is recorded to have said, "A LITTLE leaven ferments the WHOLE loaf."

Now, of course, that statement may not mean much when you follow man (as in, the "FDS", "GB", Pope, Reverend, Pastor, priest, elder... or any of those ilk). However, it means EVERYTHING (i.e., 100%)... when you follow Christ. Either it's ALL clean... or it's ALL rotten, dear one. Truly.

I offer the first century status of Judaism and worship at the temple in Jerusalem. My Lord didn't condemn a little bit of it - he condemned the entire thing: from the conduct of the high priest on down to the scribes, who were merely non-priestly men who had the job of copying the Law. The same thing that was going on then... is going on now:

"‘How can YOU men say: “We are wise, and the law of JaHVeH is with us”? Surely, now, the false stylus of the secretaries has worked in sheer falsehood. The wise ones have become ashamed. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the very word of JaHVeH and what wisdom do they have?"" Jeremiah 8:8, 9

And...

“Have you seen, O son of man, what the elderly ones of the house of Israel are doing in the darkness, each one in the inner rooms of his showpiece? For they are saying, 'JaHVeH is not seeing us. JaHVeH has left the land.’” And he continued on to say to me: “You will yet see again great detestable things that they are doing.” So he brought me to the entrance of the gate of the house of JAHVeH, which is toward the north, and, look! there the women were sitting, weeping over the [god] Tam´muz. And he further said to me: “Have you seen [this], O son of man? You will yet see again great detestable things worse than these.”So he brought me to the inner courtyard of the house of JaHVeH, and, look! at the entrance of the temple of JaHVeH, between the porch and the altar, there were about twenty-five men with their backs to the temple of JaHVeH and their faces to the east, and they were bowing down to the east, to the sun. And he went on to say to me: “Have you seen [this], O son of man? Is it such a light thing to the house of Judah to do the detestable things that they have done here, that they have to fill the land with violence and that they should offend me again, and here they are thrusting out the shoot to my nose?And I myself also shall act in rage. My eye will not feel sorry, neither shall I feel compassion. And they will certainly call out in my ears with a loud voice, but I shall not hear them.” Ezekiel 8:12-18

Lots of "false" stylusing going on... and a whole LOT of stuff being done in the dark, dear one. May you hear the warning to GET OUT OF HER... and QUIT touching that "unclean" thing... even if only 3%... or risk sharing in her sins... and her plagues.

Again, I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SA

nancy drew

titus,

everyone here loves you and appreciates your perspective on wtbs issues.

don't be thinking about leaving.

the situation is if everything at the kh was terrible no one would go there the problem is something I realized one day and that is they don't want you to harbour doubts at all. they want you hook line and sinker. there was a day I realized I can't do this anymore a circuit overseer gave a talk comparing us to pottery and said if you have any independant thinking you better hammer them out of yourself like a piece of defective pottery or else you won't survive the fires of armageddon.

I thought I can't do that so you'll stay there till you can't anymore till one day you hear a talk that pushes you over the edge.

Mad Sweeney

It is easy to discern the foundational premise of authority is BS

You are right, yknot. But your statement begs the question: Is a foundation really only 3% of a structure's importance?

The Watchtower is built upon sand in direct opposition to Jesus Christ's warning.

Titus, stick around. I didn't realize you were just a kid, either. You have friends here even if we don't agree on everything doctrinally.

cantleave

Titus - STAY! I really like you - even though you confuse the hell out of me, In fact I think you confuse the hell out of yourself.

leavingwt

Titus:

Do I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true religion on Earth? I do. I do trust them.

WHEN did they become the "only true religion"? (A year or even a date range will be sufficient for me to understand your position.)

If you do not feel that this question is important or do not feel it should be answered, please give a brief explanation of WHY you feel that way.

slimboyfat

You have an interesting perspective Titus. I am not as negative as many on here against the Watchtower either. However I no longer believe in the Bible and am agnostic tending toward atheist on God's existence. At the same time I admire the Witnesses' anti-war stance and rejection of consumerist society. What I find most objectionable however is the lack of intellectual freedom among Witnesses. That and their coercion of members to refuse blood on pain of losing contact with family. The chronology is just kooky, and I am not sure how many JWs understand/believe it these days anyway.

leavingwt

Slim: If WT knew your true thoughts, they would DF you, applying all of the sanctions against you. (They would 'kill' you, spiritually, socially, etc.)

Edited to add: They would label their actions as showing True Love for you and for Jehovah.

In spite of this, you are "not as negative" against the WT. Were you to be DF'd, would your opinion likely change? Or, does your current status have little to do with your feelings about them?

slimboyfat

I know find well they would DF me in a hearbeat. On the other hand, I reckon many/most JWs have secrets that would get them DFed if others knew. There are so many rules, who is not breaking at least one of them? Mine just happens to be apostasy. And it's a good one to have because it does not fill me with guilt in the same way people might have who having sex out of marriage, gambling, smoking or whatever else while still living in fear of Jehovah.

If I was DFed that may well change my opinion of course. As things stand I see no reason to provoke the issue. Jehovah's Witnesses have good points as well as bad. If our country was to go war and call up conscripts it might be useful for me to allign myself with JWs with whom I agree on their anti-war stance.

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