How the TRINITY covers up the murder of Jehovah

by Terry 146 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Terry

  Terry, LISTEN CAREFULLY: No matter which way you slice it, the scriptures did NOTBEGIN TO BE WRITTEN DOWN anywhere near the 300 year AD mark. There were gospels circulating long before that, as evidenced by Iraeneus, Papias, etc. No, we don't have the originals - agreed. But to say that writing down Scriptures BEGAN 300 YEARS LATER is untenable.

  Sigh....

  Have you honestly tracked down examples of these early gospels? You MUST KNOW the majority of them were considered (judged!) to be too far out to include in any canon. Which raises two really interesting issues.

  Who did the judging and on what basis?

  With so many contrasting and contradictory (and fanciful) gospels around---how can you CONTINUE TO CLAIM there is any singular accurate message contained in ANY gospel?

  Any numbnut could write a Gospel of Jesus. Many did!

  You are trying to have it both ways.
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  Meeting Junkie No More

  You know what Terry? I AM trying to have it both ways because that's the only way I can make sense of anything.

  Christianity is somewhat of a conundrum to me. There's got to be a kernel of truth somewhere. What made Christianity spread like wildfire in the early years after Jesus' death BEFORE ANY GOSPELS or BOOKS were written? There was an oral tradition. The accounts of his life that we have in the Bible as we know it (the written tradition) is ALL I HAVE TO GO ON barring more archeological discoveries (which there may be!) Are the reports of his work and ministry inerrant and infallible? I don't believe so. But the 'Scriptures' tell us that HE said that those who saw him saw the FATHER. Obviously, a lot of people believed that to the point of making following him their life's mission. Do I believe it? Like I said, my own feelings about the person of Jesus are presently in a state of flux...was Jesus just a man, or was He the Father made manifest? For the present, I have to have it both ways - I cannot decide. The truth, of course, is somewhere in between. Incomprehensible!
• 

  Terry

  You know what Terry? I AM trying to have it both ways because that's the only way I can make sense of anything.

  Christianity is somewhat of a conundrum to me. There's got to be a kernel of truth somewhere. What made Christianity spread like wildfire in the early years after Jesus' death BEFORE ANY GOSPELS or BOOKS were written?

  Do I believe it? Like I said, my own feelings about the person of Jesus are presently in a state of flux...was Jesus just a man, or was He the Father made manifest? For the present, I have to have it both ways - I cannot decide. The truth, of course, is somewhere in between. Incomprehensible!

  I can certainly appreciate what you are saying.

  Remember, we are all anchored to our PRE-suppositions. We can't escape them. (Unless we acknowledge them.)

  When you say "There's got to be a kernel of truth somewhere"...that doesn't confine us to Pre-Enlightenment times, does it?

  Think of the wild things people currently believe and defend and spend their lives talking about, arguing and thinking about!

  Crop Circles, alien kidnappings, Bigfoot, Flying Saucers, ghosts, ESP, conspiracies, and so on...

  It takes a dull, empty life and colorless world and blows it all up into a mysteriously exciting technicolor 3-D adventure movie!!

  If you were a poor, uneducated fisherman in Galilee in the 1st Century with no T.V. movies, recorded music, newspapers, iPods, laptops or international Soccer matches......what would transform you world and put you at the center of the MOST IMPORTANT thing in the Universe over night??

  Wouldn't a simple story about God-Man, miracles, imminent World's end, everlasting life just ahead---knock your sandal's off?

  That's the CONTEXT of those oral stories about Jesus.

  The Roman empire was constantly at war. Mother's lost husbands and sons regularly.

  A Prince of Peace probably sounded pretty darn good to them. Turn the other cheek? Better than send your son off to die..

  In its own time and place Christianity seemed like a PRACTICAL alternative to workaday anonymity in an empire built on bloodshed and prejudice.
• 

  tec

  A Prince of Peace probably sounded pretty darn good to them. Turn the other cheek? Better than send your son off to die.. In its own time and place Christianity seemed like a PRACTICAL alternative to workaday anonymity in an empire built on bloodshed and prejudice.

  I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that back then, if you were told you were going to fight by the roman army or whatever, you couldn't say 'I follow Christ and turn the other cheek', except perhaps to say it right before they killed you.

  I also don't think being pursued, imprisoned and executed for being Christian were Practical ideas for becoming a follower of Christ. After Christianity became the accepted religion, then it might have been practical to convert, but not in those first two or three centuries. So I don't agree that Christianity seemed like the Practical alternative to anything (except spiritual exclusion and emptyness).

  Tammy
• 

  Terry

  I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that back then, if you were told you were going to fight by the roman army or whatever, you couldn't say 'I follow Christ and turn the other cheek', except perhaps to say it right before they killed you.

  The Romans always allowed conquered and occupied people relative freedom as far as religious practice was concerned. They allowed puppet rulers too.

  The Romans eventually thought of Christians as ATHEISTS because they denied OTHER PEOPLE their right to worship deities OTHER than the one God.

  A person committed to a belief and world view accepts the REALITY of that view. When actual obstacles arose (Nero blamed Christians for the burning of Rome) why would a believer in Christ stop believing?

  People kidnapped by Aliens don't renounce their stories when people start laughing at them, holding them up to ridicule and making life miserable.

  People who think Nine Eleven was a Government Conspiracy don't stop believing when they are accused of being insane.

  Cognitive Dissonance drives you DEEPER into your contradictory delusions when you are challenged.

  (p.s. Service in the Roman army was a privilege that would earn you Citizenship, property and a government handout for life! Toward the end of the Roman Empire it was largely fought by mercenaries. The "Fall" of the Empire was due to too many ex-barbarian mercenaries having no

  loyalty to their commanders.)
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  Terry

  After Christianity became the accepted religion, then it might have been practical to convert, but not in those first two or three centuries. So I don't agree that Christianity seemed like the Practical alternative to anything (except spiritual exclusion and emptyness).

  Read Edward Gibbon's RISE AND FALL of the ROMAN EMPIRE.

  There were some early Christians who served in the army. Over a certain span of time Christian sects/divisions created more annoying versions of nonpagan troublemakers Rome began dealing with as dissidents. You got along just fine in the Roman Empire as long as you didn't paint a big target on your back by causing unrest and mutiny.

  The bickering, in-fighting, controversies between christian groups started stirring up this very unrest.

  Only when the Christian community became a pain in the ass did they begin to suffer persecutions. Things weren't black and white as you present it. This is largely the mythos of christianity as told by Evangelicals and Hollywood.
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  Terry

  Bumping my old topic because I think there is still some juice to be extracted. Read the O.P.