peacedog I know this is probably a stretch..... but I'm gonna go with: an angel by the name of 'Michael'.
Correct!
Blessings,
Stephen
Who really is Michael the Archangel?
by theMadJW 309 Replies latest jw friends
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designs
Kind of illustrates the conundrum of this belief doesn't it. Some say yes some say no. Funny how the Holy Ghost couldn't straighten it all out hmmm.
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Chalam
Yeah dude, we have something to make a song and dance about, just like God's people always did and will :)
2 Samuel 6:14 (New International Version)
14 David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might
2 Chronicles 5:13 (New International Version)
13 The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang:
"He is good;
his love endures forever."Revelation 15:3-4 (New International Version)
3 and sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb:
"Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the ages.
4 Who will not fear you, O Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
and worship before you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed."Notice how the song of the Lamb speaks of the "Lord God Almighty".
Jesus is Lord, God, Mighty, King, holy and true, praise His holy name :)
Blessings,
Stephen
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designs
Do you need to fondle some Rosary Stephen, sounds like you're trying to desperately save the day..............
Never did answer why the Holy Ghost likes appear to Catholics in Tortillas and Fundamentalists in Rice Crispy's.......
Well metaphysics is hard I know.
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cantleave
Slight Digression on this wonderful MadJW thread.
Its strange that the bible emphasises the sing and dancing, yet in a kingdom hall the songs are so bland and only sanitised pre-recorded piano used to accompany the "singing". If you try to make the songs more "upbeat" you are cristicised.
The new Kingdom songs are so bad even faithful JW's are complaining. If the WTS has the truth why can they be guided to make great music to praise Jehovah?
Lets face it, Satans music is so much better. Give me Ozzy or Axel any day over the dirges that JW's have to endure.
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Chalam
cantleave Its strange that the bible emphasises the sing and dancing, yet in a kingdom hall the songs are so bland and only sanitised pre-recorded piano used to accompany the "singing". If you try to make the songs more "upbeat" you are cristicised.
That's because the WT aren't actually following the bible.
cantleave The new Kingdom songs are so bad even faithful JW's are complaining. If the WTS has the truth why can they be guided to make great music to praise Jehovah?
Worship comes from the heart. JWs have no relationship with "jehovah", he is cold and distant or worse.
God created all things, music included. He is the number one composer and musician. Expect to hear some smoking tunes in heaven and from His children on earth.
Lets face it, Satans music is so much better. Give me Ozzy or Axel any day over the dirges that JW's have to endure.
Agreed! Can say I like the lyrics of Black Sabbath but then, neither do I like the kingdom maladies either.
Sure, the devil has some great music, that was always his thing but God taught him everything he knows ;)
Blessings,
Stephen
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Chalam
theMadJW 1 Thess 4:16- For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
So much coprolite- so little time! Notice it says the dead in christ will rise THEN? That it hasn't BEEN happening all along- as taught by CHURCHianity????
But, I digress! Notice it says Christ speaks with the voice of Archangel? Why would Christ speak with an angel's voice?And, for those of you thinking he's the Almigfhty- why would the Almighty (or one of the three) speak with it?
Christ does not speak with the voice of an archangel-read the text again!
He descends from heaven "with a loud command", "with the voice of the archangel" and "with the trumpet call of God."
Following the WT reasoning, Jesus is not only an archangel but also a trumpet
All the endless ridicule from ex-JWs and churchoids for seeing who Michael is- and NONE can answer THIS simple question, either!
Clearly the WT claim that Jesus is Michael deserves endless ridicule, especially when one looks at the WT "evidence".
Blessings,
Stephen
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designs
And Gee all of those 'Trinitarian Theologians' who disagree with Stephen............ hmmm
Well nothing new there. Darn ol HG just can't get its followers to agree
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TD
Mad,
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the manner of Jesus' advent is described with three dative prepositional phrases. Word for word, they are,
"In a loud command, In an archangel's voice, and In the trumpet of God".
We obviously don't express ourselves this way in English. The English preposition, "In" cannot function like its Greek counterpart is doing here. Translators therefore choose to use the English preposition "With" instead.
In English, "With" can mean many different things. Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary gives twenty one different definitions for this word covering a very wide range of semantic possibility. Possession, Instrumentality, Accompaniment, Causation, Temporal relationship and Proximity are just some of the ideas this word can convey in English.
However when an English word is chosen as the best functional equivalent of a Greek word, the translator usually has a much narrower definition in mind. That is the case here. Translators choose "With" to show accompaniment (Definition #1 in the captioned dictionary above.) because that is the adverbial function of the Greek phrase.
They don't choose the word, "With" to show possession. (Definition #3) Greek actually has a noun case to show possession without the use of prepositions. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 therefore does not say that Jesus is in possession of the φωνη αρχαγγελου. (Voice of an archangel) Those that make this claim don't understand the source language at all.
The three prepositional phrases indicate the attendant circumstance accompanying the action indicated by the main verb. They indicate what sounds will be heard during the Lord's descent from heaven. The sense is clearer if we translate εν as "amid" rather than "with"
This isn't just my personal opinion. Greek scholars are unanimous on this.
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theMadJW
Marvelous Escapism! Bravo! From trying to find squirm-room in the Greek to a dig on poor dead Russell- you've done a GREAT job of stretching that imagination far past the breaking point! (Any minute now!)
Let's try this AGAIN!
1 Thess 4:16- For the Lord himself will come down from heaven,
with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel and
with the trumpet call of God,
and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Churchianity befouls almost EVERY biblical word!
"The Lord" actually means ONE of the Three Lords, in churchese! Jesus comes down WITH:
(1) A Loud Command- is someone ELSE commanding?
(2) The Voice (authority) of THE Archangel- they say there's more than one, so which one does Christ have? Or is it Christ at ALL being referred to: roll the dice, if you trust in clergy!
(3) The trumpet call of God- trumpets were used to direct the attack of an army, Lord )or Lords) only knows what churchoids will claim here!
Young's LITERAL translation has it-
"because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first"
So the account CLEARLY shows Christ Shouting a Command as Archangel (Chief Messenger) and using the battle call of his God and Father.
Buuuut- that makes WAY too much sense for churchoids!