PARADISE EARTH OR HEAVEN? OR BOTH?

by exjw2814 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello exjw2814,

    Just to clarify, paradise appears only three times in the NT so it is pretty easy to define.

    Luke 23:42-43 (New International Version)

    42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

    43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

    First thing, Jesus is there with the thief and all who believe Hebrews 11

    2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (New International Version)

    2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

    Secondly, Paul knew someone who had been there (likely himself 2 Corinthians 12:7 ) and the text shows that "paradise" is third heaven. The term "third heaven" is only mentioned once in the bible but it is safe to assume it is not the heavenly demonic realm Ephesians 6:12 or neither the original paradise Genesis 2:8-10

    Revelation 2:7 (New International Version)

    7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

    The tree of life is still there and the city comes down "out of heaven" Revelation 21:2, Revelation 21:10.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • exjw2814
    exjw2814

    Thanks Stephen, that's great information right there! I know in the OT the JWs talked about the paradise on earth mentioned in the book of Isaiah , but that's referring to the Israelites and the promise land. God Bless.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Regarding the NEW JERUSALEM, the bible did give accurate measurements concerning the size. And ill tell you one thing, it's quite too large to fit on the earth. Actually, if it were placed on this earth, the highest point of the NEW JERUSALEM would be in outter space, or even farther. I guess we will have to wait and see. God Bless!

    Perhaps, dear exjw (peace to you!). But perhaps you will consider the following truths:

    "The God that made the world and all the things in it, being, as this One is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples..."

    "YOU

    are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, and YOU have been built up upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ [Jesus] himself is the foundation cornerstone. In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple for JaHVeH. In union with him YOU , too, are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit."

    "Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him the glory, because themarriage of the Lamb has arrivedand his wife has prepared herself.Yes, it has been granted to her to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones.”

    "I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

    "Come here,I will show youthe bride, the Lamb’s wife.” So he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit to a great and lofty mountain, and he showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heavenfrom Godand having the glory of God.

    "Its radiance was likea most precious stone, as a jasper stone shining crystal-clear."

    "Coming to him as to a living stone, rejected, it is true, by men, but chosen, precious, with God,YOU yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through [Jesus] Christ.For it is contained in Scripture: “Look!I am layingin Zion a stone, chosen, a foundation cornerstone, precious; and no one exercising faith in it will by any means come to disappointment.”

    "‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine."

    "The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has becomethe chief cornerstone. ... the person falling upon this stone will be shattered."

    "It had a great and lofty wall and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names were inscribed which are those of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.On the east were three gates, and on the north three gates, and on the south three gates, and on the west three gates.The wall of the city also had twelve foundation stones, and on themthe twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.Now the one who was speaking with me was holding as a measure a golden reed, that he might measure the city and its gates and its wall.And the city lies foursquare, and its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs; its length and breadth and height are equal. Also, he measured its wall, one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to a man’s measure, at the same time an angel’s.Now the structure of its wall was jasper, and the city was pure gold like clear glass. The foundations of the city’s wall were adorned with every sort of precious stone: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chal·ced´o·ny, the fourth emerald, the fifth sar´do·nyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrys´o·lite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrys´o·prase, the eleventh hyacinth, the twelfth amethyst.Also, the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was made of one pearl.

    "For he was awaiting the cityhaving real foundations, the builder and maker of which [city] is God."

    "And the broad way of the city was pure gold, as transparent glass."

    "I am the way..... No one comes to the Father except through me."

    "And you must make a cover [propitiatory] of pure gold, two and a half cubits its length and a cubit and a half its width."

    "... we have a helper with the Father, [Jesus Christ], a righteous one. And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins..."

    "The tent of Godis with mankind, and he will reside with them..."

    "YOU peopleare God’s temple... the spirit of God dwells in YOU... "

    May it be granted to YOU, dear exjw... any others who are "wishing"... to SEE... the Holy City, New Jerusalem. Now, and as she "comes down out" of heaven.

    Again, peace to you... and may the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, bless YOU, as well, by means of and through the One who is the Way "into" the Holy City... and the VERY "Precious Stone" upon which that City is founded... the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord and Master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    According to my bible studies - all three.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello exjw2814,

    Thanks Stephen, that's great information right there!

    Cool-glad to be of service.

    I know in the OT the JWs talked about the paradise on earth mentioned in the book of Isaiah , but that's referring to the Israelites and the promise land.

    Try these three chapters for size Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, Isaiah 66

    I think you will see that Isaiah is prophesying of the same paradise city that come down out of heaven which is spoken of in Revelation 21, Revelation 22

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • transhuman68
    transhuman68

    Or if you are an atheist: none of the above.

  • exjw2814
    exjw2814

    Thankyou for the post Aguest! I appreciate your insight into the matter. It's very encouraging. So the NEW JERUSALEM isn't really a physical thing, it's just spiritual ? If so, why would the bible give a precise and detailed measurement of the NEW JERUSALEM if it was something spiritual ?. It seems to me it's hard to understand what is symbolic and what isn't. Do you beleive in the rapture ? Are you a born again Christian? Just wondering. Once again thankyou and God Bless!

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    My apparently phecisious comment "According to my bible studies - all three." Was actually more serious than it appears.

    Both earth and heaven are all aspects of the physical world.

    As exjw2814 points out, heaven is a spiritual place. I fail to see how something spiritual can be in a place, but let's not spoil the party.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    does it really matter..?

    This life is the important one. It does not matter where the next one is.

    If someone says to you, "I'll give you 1 billion dollars but you'll have to have your house in _______________," and refuses to fill in the blank until you agree to the conditions (which are simple: be kind to people), how many would refuse just because they don't know where their house is going to be? There's no place on earth you can't make really really nice with a billion dollars, so why worry?

    Same goes for the afterlife. You'll have paradise heaven, paradise earth, or you'll be conscious of nothing. Why worry about it? LIVE TODAY.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    On earth:

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