Climate Greenhouse Warming Equation Wrong

by VM44 56 Replies latest jw friends

  • besty
    besty

    BTS - your posts are like toxic waste sometimes. I just noticed you posted that link again to the Heartland 500 - a list of papers prepared by the Heartland Institute allegedly denying AGW

    I asked you aquestions and made several points about that list on another thread:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/politics/186222/3/Copenhagen-conference-fails

    And guess what?

    Nothing - no replies, no followup, you just slunk away and ignored what I said - and now here you are pasting the same thing again. Are you going to ignore the question again.

    Why was the Heartland 500 list put together without the permission of the authors, many of whom are outraged and have demanded their names be removed from the list?

    And I also noted that even with an extremely dubious methodology Heartland scraped 500 papers together that:

    Google Scholar shows over 7,000 matches for the search term "global climate change" http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q="global+climate+change"&as_sdt=2001&as_ylo=2009&as_vis=1 for the time period 2009 until present. An 'any time period' search takes that result number to over 150,000......let the reader use discernment - but 500/150,000 isn't even the 2.5% of climate scientists that are known deniers....

    Are you going to ignore my question and comments again?

    Come on BTS - answer the question....

  • worldtraveller
    worldtraveller

    All the graphs and rhetoric still cannot explain why so much parranoia against climate change. In a nutshell....humans require clean and balanced air. Air is being polluted with fossil fuels around the world. Do you not believe that clean air is a basic human right? Perhaps some people profit from fossil fuels and would not be happy about a reduction in their cash flow. This also explains why car manufacturers are so afraid to offer us an all electric car. Why does the "Volt" take so long to get to retail? Why does it not take advantage of solar panels?

    Thank you big oil.

    This reminds me of the Glenn Beck story of big and evil government and how your money will be useless. You must buy gold! I must advertise gold. So I (Glenn) can be even richer.

    People, please make informed decisions. Don't let others do your thinking.

    BTW. When I was a little kid, the sunshine was my friend. Almost never any sunburn. Now...30 years later, a 15 minute walk in the summer and I am suffering from 1st degree sunburns. Never mind the math.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    I think the energy crisis and the climate crisis are pretty much intertwined.

    States are far more likely to go to war over hydrocarbons in the coming years than over rising temperatures. That's where our priority should be for the time being.

    Exactly why are we burning the ground beneath our feet, and simultaneously destroying our environment, for energy?

    Until we find alternatives I certainly wouldn't like to live in a world that gave up "burning the ground beneath our feet" overnight. Whether we will devise a way to sustain any reasonable standard of life in the coming decades without massive depopulation by one means or another (war, disease, famine) remains an open question.

  • besty
    besty

    B-Rock:

    Scafetta and Wilson findings coincide with those of Dr Nahle’s in Amplitude of Solar Irradiance and Change of Temperature:

    There is no problem with the 2.5% of climate scientists who don't believe humans are contributing to global warming.

    All they have to do is be open with their code and methodology and let other scientists attempt to replicate their results. Until they do so their work carries less weight in the community.

    The fact these sort of papers exist is healthy and proof that there is no conspiracy to silence opposing views - thanks for bringing this up.

  • besty
    besty

    I don't disagree SBF - your assessment of the prevailing myopia is evident on this thread :-)

  • besty
    besty

    worldtraveller:

    All the graphs and rhetoric still cannot explain why so much parranoia against climate change

    an extremely effective long term strategy of disinformation by the carbon lobby goes a long way to explain the problem.

  • B-Rock
  • B-Rock
    B-Rock

    Jasper Kirby, CERN researcher for 25 years, on the relationship between Cosmic Rays and Climate:

    http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1181073

  • villabolo
    villabolo

    slimboyfat:

    "States are far more likely to go to war over hydrocarbons in the coming years than over rising temperatures. That's where our priority should be for the time being."

    SBF. Your statement reveals a simplistic view of Global Warming as a mere rise in temperature. A small increase in temperature will transform the complex dynamics of the climate we've adapted to and the crops that we depend on. People and nations will fight over food whether they're ruined by Climate Change or reduced drastically by shortages of fuels that we rely on for transportation.

    If Climate Change proceeds in full swing it may perhaps finish what Peak Oil started, namely the demise of this civilization. Our priority should be for both as if they were to happen simultaneously even if they don't, otherwise we may perhaps succeed in tackling Peak Oil but get defeated by Climate Change.

    villabolo

  • besty
    besty

    B-Rock

    Zombie Denier Myth 5 - Its cosmic rays what are doing it to us!

    Answer - no its not.

    Evidence - Kriova and Solanki 2003 and in pictures:

    Lockwood 2007 concluded "the observed rapid rise in global mean temperatures seen after 1985 cannot be ascribed to solar variability, whichever of the mechanism is invoked and no matter how much the solar variation is amplified."

    Thanks for highlighting that there are other scientists that have differing views on the causes of climate change. I thought their own summary on the link you posted was pretty interesting.

    The current understanding of climate change in the industrial age is that it is predominantly caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gases, with relatively small natural contributions due to solar irradiance and volcanoes.

    Always good to acknowledge the mainstream consensus so the reader knows what follows is left field....

    However, palaeoclimatic reconstructions show that the climate has frequently varied on 100-year time scales during the Holocene (last 10 kyr) by amounts comparable to the present warming - and yet the mechanism or mechanisms are not understood.

    Can I assume you are never going to bring up the subject of innacurate models again? It would be unfair to criticize some models and not others....right? Unless you are qualified to describe why a particular model is inaccurate, in which case you wouldn't be wasting your time on a discussion forum for ex-JW's.

    Some of these reconstructions show clear associations with solar variability, which is recorded in the light radio-isotope archives that measure past variations of cosmic ray intensity.

    And therefore some of them don't - although the authors don't define 'some' in this summary, if it had been a majority I'm sure they would have noted that.

    However, despite the increasing evidence of its importance, solar-climate variability is likely to remain controversial until a physical mechanism is established.

    We don't know how this works and most of our peers think we are barking up the wrong tree.

    Estimated changes of solar irradiance on these time scales appear to be too small to account for the climate observations.

    Even if we knew how it works it doesn't seem to be sufficiently impactful to explain the indisputable facts.

    This raises the question of whether cosmic rays may directly affect the climate, providing an effective indirect solar forcing mechanism. Indeed recent satellite observations - although disputed - suggest that cosmic rays may affect clouds. This talk presents an overview of the palaeoclimatic evidence for solar/cosmic ray forcing of the climate, and reviews the possible physical mechanisms. These will be investigated in the CLOUD experiment which begins to take data at the CERN PS later this year.

    More questions than answers here it seems.....but that's good - thats how we make progress right? If the cosmic ray explanation establishes itself as mainstream accepted theory due to good science then I'll be happy to accept that.

    In the meantime perhaps you can explain to me why rising CO2 levels are not warming the atmosphere as predicted by GHG theory if the cosmic ray postulation is accurate?

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