How far would you go to protect your fade?

by jabberwock 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • jabberwock
    jabberwock

    Trying to fade inevitably involves some compromises. Still, I wonder how far I would be willing to go in order to leave on my own terms and not be disfellowshipped or pushed to disassociate.

    At what point would you just give up and let them disfellowship you or send in a letter of disassociation?

    What would you do if someone found your copy of of Crisis of Conscience?

    What would you say if an elder confronted you after the meeting with printouts of your postings here and asked if you had indeed written them?

    What if a suspicious relative came right out and asked you, "Do you still believe that this is the truth?"

    If you faced a judicial committee, whether for apostasy or something else, would you fight the charges, fake repentance, or just let them disfellowship you?

  • Marni Mai
    Marni Mai

    I'd probably tell them to go shove as it's none of their business. Although I have been honest with my family as they are important to me and I thought they deserved to know. I just told them it was my choice and it wasn't made lightly, and I'm happy with it so I'm not going to argue with them.

    If I got called to a jc I wouldn't go. I don't owe them anything. If I get df'd so be it. The people that matter know what's going on.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Dear Jabberwock,

    My advice is speed up your fade, get the hell out of the going to meetings thing ASAP.

    With some ONE (not two) who asks me outright a "loyalty" question,or another question that traps me in their eyes, I reply truthfully, but tell them if they repeat this I will deny it.

    That still has dangers as they could build a case by getting two such people together to testify against you.

    If confronted with a printout as you say,which I doubt would ever happen, just deny it is your postings, and ask if whoever got it off the Net is not going against the GB's advice.

    If someone found my copy of C.O.C I would tell them to read it first, and then tell me why I shouldn't own, and in fact, treasure it.

    If a J.C was formed against me I would fight it by threatening to sue individually the 3 Elders, as per Doc Bobs letter etc.

    FADE FASTER. Before long they leave you alone, you soon drop off the radar.

    Love

    Wobble

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    For me the danger of being disfellowshipped is real. If I get DF'd my mother will write me out of her will (that would mean more money to my arrogant, patronising and loathsome brother or even worse the WTS). The other issue is all my work at present comes from a company owned by JW;s, you can bet your bottom dollar that would dry up once I was DF'd.

  • jabberwock
    jabberwock

    Thanks, for your replies so far.

    marni mai, it seems like you have sucessfully finished fading, especially if you would have no problem being disfellowshipped or telling the elders to shove it.

    wobble, I'm trying to fade as quickly as possible, though still not quite as quickly as I would like. I haven't actually faced any of the scenarios I mentioned, nor do I expect to, but I am interested in how other faders might handle them.

    cantleave, I can relate to the financial pressure to stay in and I agree that Witnesses would probably stop doing business with you if you were disfellowshipped. It's amazing that they would illegally discriminate based on religion with little hesitation. Do you think you'll be able to find other non-Witness businesses to work with instead?

  • carpediem
    carpediem

    I am planning on disassociating as soon as I have had opportunity to tell close friends first and a jw I work with. There is one chap who attends my old cong about 3 times a year with his jdub wife. He was baptised many years ago but faded and then just shows up for the occasional meeting and memorial. He gets treated like crap anyway.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Do you think you'll be able to find other non-Witness businesses to work with instead?

    Yes I am sure I would, but at present I am being paid v good money for doing very little - I guess I am too lazy to look elsewhere at this moment in time.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    What would you do if someone found your copy of of Crisis of Conscience?

    Do not meet with elders. When a family member presents the book to you, dance around their questions if you think they are going to turn you in.
    "What's that?" "Did you read it?" "You ask where I got it from. I never said it was mine." "No, I will not admit to buying or reading it. Feel free to look at it to see what it is." Even if they clearly know it's yours, you never actually said it, so you can continue to "dance."

    Sure, it is reasonable evidence. But it is not ironclad evidence. Keep up the smoke screen. If your relative turns you in, continue to refuse to meet with elders and be very upset whenever they talk about it: "My brother found some book and you guys want to grill me about the book that HE found like the Spanish Inquisition. I have done nothing wrong. No, I will not meet with you since I just stated what I know."

    What would you say if an elder confronted you after the meeting with printouts of your postings here and asked if you had indeed written them?

    Get out the smoke screen. "What are these? Let me see them." "I am not familiar with what you have here." "Have I posted to a website about Jehovah's Witnesses? Are you accusing me of something? I don't even know what you are talking about."

    Refuse to meet with two of them by getting all upset when initially presented with evidence. We are talking about Theocratic warfare, so a bit of misleading can be done without actually lying- Insist on seeing the the printouts and say that you did not "write" these. (You did not write his printouts.) If they ask directly if you are a member of some website, just answer with questions and confusion: "What website?" "What are you talking about?" Stick to that even if he insists on a YES or NO answer. He is not an appointed judge of some court of law. He cannot insist and compel you to obey.

    What if a suspicious relative came right out and asked you, "Do you still believe that this is the truth?"

    If you think it will lead to them turning you in, admit that you have questions or doubts. Admit no more. As above, they are not a judge in a court of law. I like to answer with questions:
    "I am concerned about what part of it is 'the truth.' Was it the truth that the generation of 1914 would not all die before the end arrived? Was it true that the literature used to say that it was the "Creator's Promise" that such a generation would not all die before the end? Was it true that Jehovah's Witnesses used to tell members to refuse organ transplants and vaccinations and will they eventually allow blood transfusions?"

    Stick with whatever is your passion. I might ask if it is true that they sent older members home from Bethel service after decades of faithful service. It's not something you expect answers from- it's just a smoke screen and a way to be honest with a relative at the same time.

    If you faced a judicial committee, whether for apostasy or something else, would you fight the charges, fake repentance, or just let them disfellowship you?

    When they are investigating the possibility of having a JC, I would ask to see their evidence. I might agree to initially meet with the committee just to say I am not here to confess to anything. "I

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    This forum is cutting off too much. My comment was not even that long.

    Read this letter from Doc Bob: http://www.docbob.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6
    Develop your own letter and slap it down on the JC when first called before them, and walk out.

  • I quit!
    I quit!

    In the past people were burned a the stake for not recanting their beliefs. Remember all the Witnesses can do is say "we won't play with you anymore".

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