ADAM GROWS OLD

by Titus 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  nugget

  Hi Titus,

  I have looked to see if I can get some clarity on the issue. Unfortunately the bible does not give Eve much press. With reference to the birth of Seth Genesis 5v3 it states that Adam lived on for 130 years before fathering Seth and after Seth he lived for 800years. It doesn't offer any specifics as to how old Eve was when these events occurred.

  It may be that these dates are recorded elsewhere or there has been something published in a magazine that speculates on this.

  In recent articles the watchtower has stopped referring to the creative days as being 1000 yrs per day and use the expression serveral thousand years instead. This can mean an indeterminate length of time so how long has to pass from the creation of Adam until the end of the day of rest is uncertain.

  Although there seems to be alot of rhetoric about loyalty and the end of the system being around the corner there is no mention of a date this time round.

  As others have suggested there has been some effort to distance the society from 1975 and other dates. There is no doubt that in the past those dates were given prominence I remember it.

  Welcome I look forward to seeing what others have found.
• 

  yknot

  Sweety.....

  For all JWs.....the GB is in fact master of their faith. True anointed submit to their sayings too or face DFing like anyone else (please review 2007-2008 WTs for this confirmation)

  No my dear Titus.......the GB are your mediator, without them know one is saved.

  (you are nearing your posting limit..... I hope you continue this conversation and others tomorrow!)

  Best wishes in your personal journey of seeking righteousnes
• 

  tenyearsafter

  Hi Titus...and welcome!! I think you will find this a very interesting place to exchange ideas.

  I know exactly why you don't bring this up to the elders...especially as a MS. If you did, I think you know that they would not view your question as an inquiry, but rather, at best, as a "doubt" and more likely a "divisive false teaching", and thus marking you as an apostate. I know where you are coming from...I was there and suppressed my questions for years. Unfortunately, those questions don't go away and you will eventually have to resolve them by either confronting them or repressing them to oblivion. I chose the former and my brother chose the latter. The bottom line is that there is no middle of the road choice if you are honest with yourself.

  The whole issue of the creative day is one that is a source of discussion in many denominations. The liberal Christian denominations hold to an "old earth" theory and feel that the creative days don't represent a set time. The conservative Christian denominations believe in a "young earth", and feel that the creative days were a literal 24 hour period. The WTS has settled on something in the middle and formed the concept of the "creative day" of 7000 years. I guess my thought on this is, "what does it matter"? If a true Christian is focused on salvation issues, how does the length of the creation impact that? The real focus should be on what are "true" salvation issues, because when the "rubber meets the road", that will be all that matters to God.

  Whatever direction your questions lead you, I wish you the best in your search...

  TYA
• 

  Titus

  Thank you TYA. I really don't feel that this is some important matter to build my faith. But if this is not important at all, and if it is not true (7000 yrs each day long), then the statement that "Millennium" is literally 1000 yrs long also comes into the question. Do you understand the connection between two?

  I don't know... We must wait on Jehovah...

  Yea TONKY, they are our leaders... In spite of fact that 99% of JWs don't even know their names... Did you see flags or images with GB members' faces in Kingdom Hall? Or would you like to be my leader? Should I follow you? Or somebody else! I know some of GB members personally, but am not especially impressed with their presence. They are people like you and me...
• 

  bohm

  Titus: Hey and welcome!

  Its really good to see an active, well-spoken jehovahs witness here!. I admire that you are taking your time to examine your faith - I am not and have never been a witness, but my girlfriend is and i am studying with one right now.

  About the creative days, it is a question i have thought about a couple of times. Actually i was surpriced that the 'creative day' of 7000 years of length was being referred to as late as 87 - i thought the current light on the matter was that a creative day was an indefinite amount of time, possible millions of years! (i have talked a lot about it with my bible study conductor, and that was what he said).

  With regard to Adam... personally, this is not a big issue for me. Jesus said that the day and time would be unknown, so i dont think it would make sence if we could 'calculate' it exactly using the 6000 days as an exact formula and i also think that originally the 6000 days pointed towards jesus invisible presence in 1873 (actually it is so, i found this one: http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/stories/2005/01/09/watchtowerDatesTheJehovahsWitnessesAndPropheticYears.html), so its a point that are up to some interpretation.

  Even if it is the correct interpretation, there can be many explanations, perhaps adam had fun doing something else (we dont know how a 'perfect' mind work), perhaps there is a slight error in the biblical chronology so the 6000 really end at another time or perhaps it is not the correct interpretation. At any rate, i wish you good luck in exploring your faith. Its a big and hard adventure you are on :-).

  ps.

  If you want to tell, it would be interesting to hear your story about the GB!
• 

  Titus

  Bohm, you know what is zone overseer? Do you know what is service overseer? Circuit overseer? District overseer? All of them are elders, who serve in various services within Jehovah's visible oraganization. So with GB's members is the same - they are just elders who serve in Governing Body. Nothing else. They are members of their congregations in NY, they are not even presiding overseers (I don't know new term in english) in their congregations... during the CO's visit week they have to listen to him... They also have to be obedient to Jehovah's words, as you and me. They cannot be excused for disobedience... You probably know Raymond Franz's case... They can even be disfellowshipped if they are not repenting... They are not ABOVE us, and believe me - they know that.

  That's my story about the GB

  You say that you were surpriced that the 'creative day' of 7000 years of length was being referred to as late as 87. Gilead's students STILL learn that, I know that. However, your words really make sense... Thank you!

  P.S. Continue your study with us!
• 

  jookbeard

  Titus ; God does not have a visible organization, if he did there is supposed to be an unbroken chain of faithful servants from 2000 years ago to the date of 1919, who were the men or groups that made the uninterrupted chain up until that date? If you cant name these men or groups then the WTS cannot be the final class that Jesus appointed to look after his Earthly belongings. The date of 1919 would have seen CT Russel and his Bible Students practicing beliefs steeped in the Occult and Freemasonry in which Russell indeed was. The later years of Judge Rutherford found similar Apostasy being taught with his publication "Angels" and "Millions now living will never die" right up until our modern day with the leaders of Gods Visible Organization condoning paedophilia/aligned with the UN/sending your own brothers to death in Malawi and finally and sadly the murderous doctrine of the banning of organ and blood amongst your brothers resulting in the innocent loss of lives of countless children and young babies. God is very unlikely to be selecting and organization guilty of so much evil.
• 

  truthseeker

  Titus,

  I really enjoyed your post and have heard similar conversations about this.

  An elder I know once told me that if we knew the DATE that Eve was CREATED, we would know the date of Armaggedon, because Eve was Jehovah's last creation and thus aftrerwards began his day of rest. Well we know that man has been on earth 6,000 years according to the Bible and not according to science, so it would make sense for the Millenial reign to start on day 1 of the seventh millenium.

  As it is, counting from 4026 BCE and arriving at 2009, man has been on earth for at least 6,035 years.
• 

  yknot

  Yea TONKY, they are our leaders... In spite of fact that 99% of JWs don't even know their names... Did you see flags or images with GB members' faces in Kingdom Hall? Or would you like to be my leader? Should I follow you? Or somebody else! I know some of GB members personally, but am not especially impressed with their presence. They are people like you and me...

  I don't understand your sarcasm....... All I did was point out what the GB (or WT leader 1935-1977) themselves have said..........they (not Christ) are your mediator.... you cannot follow the lamb yourself and be saved, you must follow them in faithful association to be saved. So why are you being hateful? .....

  Further more how is offering Watchtower literature trying to 'lead you'......

  Actually since the late 90's many JWs R&F do know their names, year of birth and year of appointment .......of course this was all related to the now defunct 1935 interpretation we taught erroneously for 72 years.

  Many on this board have been in their presence too......and all of us know that it is one thing to ask a question and quite another to continue to question or contradict one of them.......in fact it is the fast track to being DFd!
• 

  Pallbearer

  Hello Titus,

  What I have to say to you has no relevance to the question you asked in the opening post, but it's something that I feel you should be more concerned about because it's far more important. I once believed in the 1914 doctrine, but quit believing it in 1974. I have solid grounds for being able to say very dogmatically that I know for an absolute certainty that the date 1914 did not see the beginning of what Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24. Just as sure as Satan caused a light to shine in the sky (referred to today as the "Star of Bethlehem") as a scheme to have Jesus killed when just a child, he also caused World War I to happen so as to deceive the Watchtower Society into believing that the year 1914 began to see Bible prophecy fulfilled. As you no doubt are aware of, our dear Brother Russell pointed to 1914 as the year that was to see the end of man's system. But of course we know now that that wasn't to be. We also know that if World War I had not happened in that year then the Watchtower Society would have abandoned the 1914 minus 607 = 2,520 years theory. Knowing as I do, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24 has yet to be fulfilled, there can be only one explanation as to why the year 1914 just happened to see a World War take place, something that could easily fool Jesus' disciples of today into thinking that the 1914 date had been confirmed, and which would obviously cause us to retain a tight grip on a date that, in truth, means absolutely nothing. As long as Satan can keep Jesus' disciples into believing a falsehood it is to his advantage, and to our disadvantage. You see, Satan has us busy wasting time preaching something false. I have sent documents to the Writing Department urging them to consider the reasons why World War I could not be what Jesus had in mind at Matthew 24:7. The reason I chose the screen-name "Pallbearer" here is because I hope to help carry the 1914 doctrine to its proper burial site, the garbage dump. If you don't believe me when I say that the 1914 doctrine is garbage, then just wait and see, I guarantee that you WILL sooner or later.

  .