The Title Jesus Gave Himself: Lord of the Sabbath

by EverAStudent 52 Replies latest jw friends

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  PSacramento

  Consdering how the Pharasiees had screwed up the sabbath, if there was one person that indeed could call himself Lord of the Sabbath, it was the person that created the sabbath God, and since God created the world through Jesus, the sabbath is Jesus's sabbath also.

  Does this mean the Jesus is God?

  The questin seem to imply that you can have one without the other, doesn't it?

  Well, we can't. God is ALL and Jesus is in God, just as the HS is in God and God is in them.

  You can;t have one ( God) without the others ( Jesus and the HS) or vise-versa.
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  sir82

  Got it - OK, I see your point.
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  EverAStudent

  PSacramento, your assumption is that Jesus believed there were two "Lords" of the Sabbah, He and God. That is unsupportable in the Greek. Jesus said He was the Lord of the Sabbath, singular, not one of two Lords of the Sabbath. In that assertion, He gives no credit to anyone other than Himself as Lord.

  Since Jesus was the one who called attention to the fact that the OT demanded that there only ever be one God / one Lord, that makes Jesus a selfish blasphemor, or, it means He was calling Himself YHWH, the one (and only) Lord of the Sabbath.

  Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;(Mark 12:29)
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  PSacramento

  Everastudent,

  I think you may need to re-read my posts.

  Unless of course you are implying that Jesus was stating that he, Jesus, was YHWH and not even the Trinity says that.
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  EverAStudent

  PSacramento wrote:

  Everastudent,

  I think you may need to re-read my posts.

  Unless of course you are implying that Jesus was stating that he, Jesus, was YHWH and not even the Trinity says that.

  Exactly right! I am saying that Jesus claimed to be YHWH. One and the same. "Trinitarians" believe that there is only one God. That one God, YHWH, is comprised of three persons, not three separate gods, but all three persons are one God. They form a unity, a single being, YHWH.

  No, it is not possible for humans to combine themselves with 2 other persons to become a trinity. And a single human acting out as three personalities (schizophrenia) is not the same thing as being a truly blended being with three persons. It is not something corporeal humans can do or experience, but it is possible only for God, and is in fact, God's nature.

  Trinitarians have always taught that as a single being the three persons of God (YHWH) are equal in being and in substance (existing as one being) but also have different roles and so subordinate their roles to each other. Specifically, the fact that the Holy Spirit allows Himself to be sent by the Son and by the Father does not make Him lesser in nature, but His role is subordinate to the others. Similarly, the Son is sent by the Father, but that does not make Him less than God for subordinating His role to the Father. They are, and have always been, one God, three persons.

  There has only ever been one Lord of the Sabbath.
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  PSacramento

  You are certainly entitiled to view it (interpret) that way.

  I don't and many other don't also, but you certainly can.

  I see Jesus as Lord of the Sabbath, just as I see him as our lorad and saviour, judge and redeemer, roles given to him by the father under our New Covenant.

  I see Jesus in perfect union with the Father and all things done through Jesus by the Father and I see the HS as being of the Father and of the Son.

  If you wanna interpret that and view that as a Trinity, I am cool with that.
• 

  Deputy Dog

  PS

  Unless of course you are implying that Jesus was stating that he, Jesus, was YHWH and not even the Trinity says that.

  EverAStudent is right. Practicly all the trinitarians I know, would say that YHWY is the name of God (the Trinity), not just the name of the Father.
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  EverAStudent

  PSacramento, pleasure talking with you on this subject.

  To you, or anyone else, what is the official WTS understanding (misunderstanding?) of the title: Lord of the Sabbath?
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  PSacramento

  DD,

  I may be misunderstanding what everastudent is saying, but it seems to me that he is implying the Jesus was calling himself YHWH, ie: God the father, not God the son of the Trinity.

  It is my undestanding that, while Jesus is part of the trinity, he is so as God, the Son, not God the father and as such he is the person of God, the Son.

  To say that Jesus was claiming to be YHWH, God the father would mean that he was claiming to be the PERSON of God, the father, no?
• 

  PSacramento

  PSacramento, pleasure talking with you on this subject.

  To you, or anyone else, what is the official WTS understanding (misunderstanding?) of the title: Lord of the Sabbath?

  You too :)

  I have no idea what the WT doctrine is in regards to that.