My Email to a Jw supporter

by AK - Jeff 12 Replies latest jw experiences

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    He has never been a JW, officially. But, like a large part of my family on that side, he was raised with JWism as his 'religion'. At various times he was somewhat active in the faith, other times disappointed in what he has seen.

    We have been recently involved in a series of email conversations - kindled by seeing each other at the family reunion a few weeks back. Other than changing one or two comments to keep anonymity, this is how I responded to his latest surprise of my revealing that I was now a legally ordained minister - though I profess 'Agnosticism'.

    The letter:

    Hey Cousin –

    I will try and address each point as you made them. Your comment above, mine below it.

    It's kinda hard for me to understand why you no longer believe the bible is from God or that there may not even be a personal God.

    Short answer is: I spent most of three years examining the Bible very closely after leaving the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I find little evidence to support the idea that the Bible had any supernatural origin. Men wrote it. On that we all agree. There is not a shred of evidence that it was ‘inspired’ by anyone. There were literally hundreds of other ‘books’, ‘letters’ and other ‘writings’ written over the centuries preceding the time of Jesus, and hundreds more in the post Jesus’ era, that were rejected by the Catholic bishops that declared the ‘canon’ of the Bible. Some of those writs are in severe contrast with the rough outline of Christianity as represented in the current accepted Bible. There is no evidence to support the idea that those Catholic bishops were ‘led by Holy Spirit’ to choose the correct contents of the Bible. There is significant evidence to support the conclusion that not a single word was penned by any of the NT writers until at least 30 years after the death of Jesus. Now, honestly, if you and I were clear-headed witnesses to events that we knew were so significant so as to affect all of mankind eventually, would we not get busy and put those words of our ‘Master and King and Saviour’ down for preservation? Of course we would. Yet no one did so until long afterwards. Perhaps they were busy creating a legend, more than reporting facts? I can’t say. Lifespans were short then, for most. Waiting 30 years carried with it the very real possibility that we would never get those words penned at all. Why take such risk? A curious fact is that many scholars claim that the Gospels were never written by the men whose names are born upon them. Why the literary deception?

    As far as God’s existence goes, that’s a bit more complicated. Let me just say this – please follow along – many Christians suggest that ‘proof’ of God is in nature’s design. You look at a watch and know there had to be a designer, right? You look at animals and there must be a designer – for nothing so complicated could have just happened, right? Yet, is not our concept of “God” as being the most complex/complicated of all beings? Yet we suggest without a flinch that God was never made, never created, but that he must exist because lesser animals/plants/planets/etc are here? If the watch had to have a watchmaker, then how do we reject out of hand that the maker of the watchmaker just has always been?

    I think we must have faith in those things. How can you not feel this way anymore? Or..did you just agree to that to get the ordained minister certificate?

    Why? Billions of people have far different faiths than that represented by those who accept the Bible. What makes the Holy writ we call the Bible superior to the writings of other men of ancient times? Surely, if you and I had been born in Iran, we would be declaring that the Quaran surely represents the ‘truth’ from God, and that he is Allah, and no other can stand before him, and that Mohammed was his only true prophet, wouldn’t we? And we would believe it with all our hearts perhaps. We would die for it. We would kill for it. We would insist that others should do the same, wouldn’t we? I did not agree to any particular doctrines to get the ordination proclamation.

    As far as the idea of...."I am a servant of my fellowman."......well......to me, that's just a crazy idea...men serving men.

    The idea of humanity is a great cause, but no man can give us true happiness or protection or even life itself.

    Can God do so, as far as you can prove beyond a shadow of doubt? I know of no person ever brought back to life by God. I know of no person who can claim that he was absolutely protected by God. I know of people of all religions/faiths/ideas that claim such a thing. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Shintoist, Toaist, all claim some form of God’s protection, some claiming that they have seen God in action. None of them can present solid evidence more than any Christian can, can they? Yet, humanity does need others to serve as ‘ministers’ to its’ needs in many ways. We need services, and we need community, and perhaps we also need ‘religion’. Serving man is a great privilege – a pathway that Jesus himself seems to have embraced, as did Confucious, and Ghandi, and Socrates. We are ‘bent’ from youth onward to accept that God is in the box we have placed him. We use God as our talisman to ward off evil, to conquer enemies and paranoia. We have created God precisely in our image, then taught our children that they too should agree. That it was sin to take God out of the box and allow him to be what he really is – or that it is the ultimate sin to say to “God” in effect; ‘Please show me that you are really here’. We, you and I, have been expected since sometime shortly after our birth, to believe in God. In just the same manner, Buddhists have been taught to accept that there is no personal God to be sought in the way Christians seek him. American Indians have been taught to accept that the ‘Great Spirit’ resides in all things, in the rocks and the land and the animals and the trees and the air. They never let him out of the box their parents built for him. Still, none of these religions can show that they have a handle on absolute ‘truth’. I wonder how God feels – if he is really God - looking down to see people insist on his nature, when not a one of them can prove themselves to be right? He must conclude that mankind is mad with arrogance of his own ideas.

    The Gnostic Christians actually believe that the Jehovah of the OT is indeed Satan. They... include other writings from the same period of early Christian times as Holy. Could they be right? If they are, then you and I would be worshipping Satan by their definition. In fact, Jehovah’s Witnesses by definition believe that anyone who worships outside their little rank is worshipping Satan too. That makes, in the opinion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, 99.9% of all of humanity, worshippers of Satan, no matter what they claim in that respect! Jw’s are not alone in such careless assessment of their own righteousness, for there are thousands of religions – some large and some small – who believe themselves to arrogantly to have truth. How can they all be right? Of course they aren’t. With all the diverse aspects of ‘faith’, what do we accept as ‘right’? How do we know? Does God even care? Is he even there?

    Yet – this much is true. We are surrounded by men and women. This we know is real. These people have real needs and desires and thoughts. They need to be assured and encouraged and loved and accepted and touched in many ways. This is part of our human mission, in my opinion.

    The idea of getting married is a bond between two people, set with the idea of God in mind. Nice to hear you will marry others.

    Is it? I always thought so. But, perhaps it is, this marriage idea, just another of our fabricated perceptions of morality. Men and women desire to mate, biologically. They always have, and they always will. People don’t like to be alone. We are community creatures. Combine these natural desires, with the need within a culture to meet standards approved by the majority, and you create marriage as we know it. In ancient Jewish community, it was considered normal to take as many wives as one could afford to support. Now, if we do that, it is considered sin. Yet the same God supposedly oversaw both arrangements. How can that be right? Perhaps God was never involved? Perhaps we like to mate, have sex, bear children, and please our community while so doing? Just a thought.

    I just hope you believe there is a God.

    Why? It fills no fundamental need for me to do so. Would I like God to reward me with everlasting life? Sure! But does it make sense to jump through hoops designed by men to gain God’s favor? I have attended several churches after leaving Jw’s – and everyone of them gave me the distinct impression [if not outwardly saying so] that I had to do things their way – for it was the right way before God. Listen to television preachers saying the same thing. Read religious literature saying the same thing. I don’t just mean Christian groups. Hindus are splintered into hundreds of factions. So are Moslems. And Buddhists. And Jews. All of them have designed a God in a Box that fits with the dogma they have assimilated over centuries. The God in the Muslim rightwing religions doesn’t look much like the God in the Muslim leftwing box. Yet they all call him Allah – a name that all Christians reject. All the Christians call him Yahweh or Jehovah or Jesus or Yeshua. Some make him a triune God, others a di-une God, some are monotheists. Any way you shake that can, 99% of us are bound to have it wrong.

    It is unreasonable to assume that God needs my worship. It serves no fundamental reason for Him to demand such from me. He is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent. What does he gain from my worship? Or even my verbal claim of faith in him? And if I claim such faith, but have it wrong – as most of us must have it wrong statistically – what would he do about that? Would he act as the benevolent God that some worship and forgive my error? Or would he behave as the malevolent God that so many Christians worship? Killing off the vast majority who had it wrong – while preserving those who had it right – though that having it right is only because they guessed correctly, but not due to any revelation of himself to them?

    The funny thing about all this, is that you might have a better idea of the real truth than many others.

    That I doubt. I don’t think real truth exists. We have created truth and God in our own image and likeness.

    Well, enough of all that. This is a tip of my mental iceberg on these very deep subjects. I seek not to convince anyone of my personal assessments really. But I will say that they have been gained honestly and with much pain over a lifetime.

    Jeff

  • Heartbreaker
    Heartbreaker

    Thoroughly enjoyed the read Jeff...thanks for sharing that.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Thanx HB. He replied very positively to the above, BTW. Still, he remains convinced of Jwism. But I hope is starting to think a bit.

    Jeff

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I know a few people that are JW's simple because they don't "fit" in anywhere else so they stay JW's and do the "buffet salad bar" thing:

    Take what they want and ignore the rest.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Yes, that might describe this person pretty well actually, PSac.

    He almost always concludes his emails, no matter how 'apostate' they have gotten, with 'May Jehovah bless and forgive us'. or effect.

    Jeff

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Interesting thread Jeff..

    Your replys are thought out..

    It should get him to think..Even if its just a bit..

    ........................OUTLAW

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    Brilliant!

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi Jeff,

    I was just wondering about this statement.

    I don’t think real truth exists.

    So we know the WT is not the truth but a lie. Wouldn't that imply that there is truth? For example, "the truth is the WT is a lie"?

    If there is no truth then why does it feel wrong to tell lies? Surely the answer cannot be "religion" as the is no common denominator amongst religion but the majority of people worldwide would agree that it is wrong to lie.

    Here's a selection of interesting quotes, see what you think

    ABRAHAM LINCOLN :

    How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

    BRAD HOLLAND :

    Postmodernists believe that truth is myth, and myth, truth. This equation has its roots in pop psychology. The same people also believe that emotions are a form of reality. There used to be another name for this state of mind. It used to be called psychosis.

    JOHN LOCKE :

    It is one thing to show a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth.

    BLAISE PASCAL :

    We know the truth, not only by the reason, but by the heart.

    GALILEO :

    All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Stephen - point taken.

    My statement should have been 'I don't believe absolute truth of a religious nature exists. I believe it all to be lies, in essence.'

    Jeff

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    I dunno about "religion", I'm not a fan. However, I agree, much religion must be full of lies as they contradict each other.

    So are you saying in essence you are an atheist or just that no-one is proclaiming the truth in regards to God?

    All the best,

    Stephen

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