This is not a spoof: New Light Suggestion for the Governing Body

by journey-on 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  still_in74

  while i think your "generationally connected" theory is a stretch, I do think the 144k will need to be made symbolic - or as you suggest, changed to mean more than 144k.

  This is in fact, probably on of the best suggestions/speculations i have heard yet. For to make the 144k symbolic could unleash enormous backlash for the org as this brings them one step closer to the teachings of christendom - and after all, the FDS should know more than christendom right?? They would never want to suggest that as light gets brighter they become more and more like christendom/babylon the great would they???

  BUT - by making the "literal" 144,000 mean more than 144k actual people it is a win-win. They keep all their old interpretations largely intact and solve the problem of having such a low limit on the annointed - after all, as the numbers increase some Dubs are going to start connecting the dots with history and ask the question how for 1900 years there were only a miniscual number of annointed?

  Is there a precident for this????

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  *** it-1pp.779-780Exodus In the census shortly after the Exodus the Levites were counted separately, and those from a month old upward numbered 22,000. (Nu 3:39) The question may arise as to why among all the other 12 tribes there were only 22,273 firstborn males from a month old upward. (Nu 3:43) This can easily be understood when the fact is appreciated that family heads were not counted, that because of polygamy a man might have many sons but only one firstborn, and that it was the firstborn son of the man and not of the woman that was counted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  *** g72 3/8 pp. 27-28 Can Apparent Numerical Discrepancies Be Resolved? ***There are times when seeming discrepancies cannot be so easily resolved. Especially is this the case in connection with the numbers given in the books of Ezra (2:1-67) and Nehemiah (7:6-69). Both books list the number of persons from various families or houses who returned from Babylonian exile with Zerubbabel. The accounts harmonize in giving 42,360 as the total number of returned exiles, apart from slaves and singers. (Ezra 2:64; Neh. 7:66) However, there are variations in the numbers given for individual families or houses. In both listings the individual figures yield a total of far less than 42,360. Many scholars would attribute these differences to scribal errors. Whereas this aspect cannot be wholly discounted, there are other possible explanations for the variations.

  It may be that Ezra and Nehemiah based their listings on different sources. For example, Ezra could have used a document listing those who enrolled to return to their homeland, whereas Nehemiah might have copied from a record listing those who actually returned. Then, too, there were priests who were unable to establish their genealogy (Ezra 2:61-63; Neh. 7:63-65), and other Israelites may well have faced the same problem. These may not have been listed in the family groupings but could have been included in the total. So the 42,360 persons could be the combined total of the number from each family plus many others who were unable to establish their ancestry. Later, however, some may have been able to establish their correct genealogy. This could explain how a fluctuation in numbers might still give the same total.

  Often the context provides the key in resolving apparent numerical discrepancies...........
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  Yes these examples arent necessarily connected to the 144k interpretation but it shows that the WTS can make numbers work if they really want them to. They set a precident.
  
  Many have speculated the number 144k will be made symbolic - but making the 144k MORE than 144k could be a strategy the GB could pull over the eyes of the R&F. In fact, they wouldnt even have to come out and say it - just "imply" it, just drop little hints here & there. The org is famous for this tactic. This concept has my vote as the most practical way for the org to go regarding the 144k
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  journey-on

  There 'ya go, still_in_74!!! This is what I was looking for...an intelligent response that reasons this suggestion out along with some scriptures to substantiate the plausibility. Family geneaology is a huge thing in the Bible, both in the Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT) scriptures. If the GB could somehow connect the scriptural dots from both, and show the strength of family/tribal lineage, many of their problems could be solved, not the least of which is the slow drain of their youth because they just don't "feel" the connection to it anymore.

  I think about this because I was raised in this religion and remember how a handful of families seemed to predominate. They may have different names because of marriages, but they seem to be able to connect family dots handily. There are 4th and 5th generation witnesses I know and their kids' kids marry other 4th and 5th generation witness families....and the beat goes on! As I said in the original post, I would bet that out of those 7million witnesses, most are no more than 6 degrees separated by family ties. And those individuals that come in late to the game are like the non-Israelites (alien residents) that associated themselves with them and became as one of them.
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  still_in74

  again, i still dont see the org attempting to connect 144k with ALL JW's - this is too finite, the WTS has learned its lesson from making specific dates and interpretations that lock them into a teaching. They prefer ambiguous statements and implications that can be modified after the fact to have always appeared to be what they "meant in the first place".

  by simply making the 144k mean more, they dont set a specific number, they dont make the "new world order" seem way out in the future, they can say its still close but quash any attempts to expose the ludicrous reality of only having miniscual numbers of annointed for almost 2 millenia, they essentially make the 144k not mean "anything" anymore regarding the last days. There is not speculation about numbers or connection to dates pertaining to the number of remant. We are in the last days solely because the "physical facts prove" we are - and it has NOTHING to do with the annointed.

  Perfect.
• 

  yknot

  Why go through so much trouble......... just alter the version of mediation to include partaking for everyone but maintain the literal 144,000. Since the generation is no longer tied to 1914 nor sealed at 1935 it is best to downplay anointment as 'special' (which of course they are already doing). I mean come-on they have already dumped Ratherfailures two other 'babies'.

  What was logically, evidently and apparently becomes as A@G pointed out in his Youtube vid a 'seems to be'........poof adjusted 'noo lite'

  This would permanently skew the view of JWs regarding numbers of anointed remaining. This way whether there is an increase or decrease the number doesn't bite them in the rump. They become 'hidden' amoung the masses.

  It also would make the Org appear more mainstream and thus easier to gain converts.....if part of other mainstreaming overhauls.

  .....But the main interest now of the WTS is probably $$$$$$ so my suggestion would be to go the route of Bob Jones and BYU.......
• 

  journey-on

  Thanks Yknot for your input. Sounds plausible, but here's what I'm thinking. If they change the doctrine, too many people will wonder (yet again) why didn't they get it right the first time. Just another blunder!

  However, if they keep the basic tenents of the doctrine, but say something like: "Evidently the 144,000 refers not to individual men and women, but rather to genealogies (family trees). Therefore, there are 144,000 chosen bloodlines and 12,000 partakers from each." Thus, 144,000 x 12,000 = 1,728,000,000. Unless they maintain genealogical records similar to the Mormons, they will never be able to put the pieces together and the numbers can go on and on and on for generations!

  But...the light has not changed doctrinally. It has just gotten brighter!
• 

  steve2

  Journey-on, an intriguing thread - but premised on the notion that the Governing Body take the time to read and comprehend what others write. Hell, they even ignore what the rank and file write to them; so much more, they'll ignore this. But, admittedly, intriguing.
• 

  Homerovah the Almighty

  Religion is an open and maneuverable operation by the leaders and organizers, there are countless

  amounts of expressed changes played out by this group that can be noted to make them them appear

  viable and truthful to the public, hence the GB are nothing more than than the marketing strategists .

  I too think that they will come out with a new spin to explain and answer the increasing amount of the anointed

  thats been reconsigned by the flock as of late.
• 

  journey-on

  steve2....thanks. I don't think the GB are really the movers and shakers of that organization. I think they are figureheads. When the $$ and the people start leaving because the increase in partakers poses an inexplicable dilemma, the powers behing the GB will get busy with a plausible explanation that won't scare off any more of the flock.

  Homer....you're right. The flock has recognized this odd increase, and it's just a matter of time before they want an explanation other than "replacements".