questions asked by judicial committee re: sexual matters?

betweenworlds

Hey, I had a question I was wondering if anyone could help me with? I've heard from past posters who have had to go through the nightmare of a judicial committee, and the elders made them go into minute detail about what did or didn't happen regarding sexual matters. My question is, is there someplace in the printed literature that describes the questions that should be asked by the committee? I have someone close to me, who doesn't believe that the elders would ask such questions. This person is seriously thinking of going back to the org and to be honest I think it would be VERY detrimental to their well being. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much bw

dinah

any of our ex-elders wanna step up?

I have a question to go along with that one: How detailed is the report back to "Mother" on JC's?

restrangled

The questions asked me at age 16 in (1976) were cringe worthy,.... and guaranteed all info went back to the mother ship because the entire thing was appealed with a new bunch of elders who had all the details and it was reversed. (it went to New York first)...... Guaranteed they had every detail.

r.

PEC

Sick bastards!

Philip

neverendingjourney

I was involved in a judicial committee over sexual matters. They asked both of us very intimate questions: "Where did you touch her?" "Did you take her top off?" "Did you kiss her breasts?" "Did she grab your genitals?" "Did you grab hers?"...and so on.

Your friend doesn't need to have this verified by us "evil apostates." He can ask people who have gone through sex-related JCs and they can vouch for that. The prolem is that no kool-aid drinking JW is going to want to go into that with a JW trying to go back to the flock.

The problem is the hyper-technical definition of what constitutes sex under the Society's interpretation. Sex includes oral sex, anal sex, and mutual masturbation, so the elders ask questions to make sure the JC subject's definition of sex fits the Society's definition of sex. They want to avoid a situation where the JC subject says they didn't have sex because he/she doesn't consider oral sex to be "sex."

I'm not sure if the elder's book goes into detail about his, or whether this is stuff that's handled via letters to bodies of elders. You can find the elder's book online and look through it. Maybe one of the current or former elders who posts on this board might have more info. on this.

I was 19 when I went through the JC, by the way.

betweenworlds

Thanks so much for the replies. She has said she wants to see proof from a publication, that the elders are required to ask questions that are extremely 'personal'. I've looked in the elders book and there is some stuff under the 'porneia' section. maybe it's just left up to the individual elders to determine the questions and there isn't any standard set of questions. Any ex-elders out there that know the answer? Thanks again sorry for the lack of formatting. the new forum doesn't seem to like my firefox

betweenworlds

oompa you're silly :P

dinah

'porneia'

That is loaded. You need DETAILS. Is the girl a whore? Did she get carried away in the moment? The GB can't differentiate between them. They see women as "vessels". To put it bluntly, they see us as one of those toys you can buy. Nothing but a hole.

Do they ever ask a girl how she FEELS? NO! Did he touch you? Where?

neverendingjourney

She has said she wants to see proof from a publication, that the elders are required to ask questions that are extremely 'personal'.

The Society does not publish this information. Their view is that the rank and file members aren't entitled to it. This is secret info. That's what the elders' book is for. If it exists in print, it's in the elders' book or in some letter from the Society to the bodies of elders.

OnTheWayOut

The Elders book (excellent link at
http://issuu.com/amama2six/docs/pay-attention-to-yourselves-and-all-the-flock-1991?mode=embed&documentId=081019210207-e45a471f2fde460582b359b083edc831&layout=grey )

On p. 92, a list of offenses that may result in judicial procedures starts. Some of what it says:
"Sexual misconduct including adultery, fornication and other forms of 'porneia'
Uncleanness includes an intentional momentary touch of sexual parts or caressing of breasts."

p. 93: " 'Porneia' involves immoral use of the genitals of at least one human (whether in a natural or perverted way), and there must have been another party to the immorality- a human of either sex or a beast; willing participation incurs guilt and requires judicial action. It is not a casual touching of the sex organs between persons but involves manipulation of the genitals."

Further down it says: "The term 'porneia' lays emphasis on both the lewd nature and the intent of the person's conduct, and it embraces all illicit sexual activity characteristic of that found in a house of prostitution.

Copulation (as in penetration) is not necessary to constitute porneia and neither is sexual climax.

In borderline cases, it is the responsibility of the judicial committee to weigh carefully the scriptures and the particular facts in the case to determine whether porneia was involved.

This responsibility should not be taken lightly..."

p. 112: "Probing questions should not go into needless detail, especially in regard to sexual misconduct, unless this is absolutely necessary, such as in determining whether porneia has been committed."

But after that on p. 112: "...the judicial committee should consider such factors as these:
Is there evidence of the person's craving wrongful things or courting trouble? Or did the person momentarily succumb to weakness?
Was he aware of the gravity of his sin?
...
What were the circumstances leading up to his wrongdoing?"

p. 120: "The committee probes with pertinent questions to an effort to establish facts and ascertain the attitude of the accused."

I left out the scriptures that are occasionally cited. Look for yourselves.
Anyway, the above info. demonstrates how elders feel free to probe into inappropriate questions in each and every case about what was touched, how many times something was done, whether the person enjoyed it, etc. They think they can figure out circumstances that led to a sin, what type of sin it is for them to categorize it- Porneia, uncleanness, or loose conduct. (I didn't type the definition of loose conduct- it's in there). They think they are taking their responsibility more seriously by asking such embarassing questions and totally ignore the part about needless detail.

But on reporting it, they don't go into detail on their forms to WTS. Just list the offense. Still, they had to probe to make sure they got the right offense.

questions asked by judicial committee re: sexual matters?

Share this