WANTED ! JW Apologist (page 37)

OUTLAW

and even sometimes OUTLAW:

LOL@BizzyBee!!

Laughing Mutley ...OUTLAW

besty

I thought you had accepted the point that oompa continually made that the insistence on accepting true teachings of the Bible that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses referred to 'present truth' and not any unique belief held in 1919

@Earnest: No, I conceded that my use of the WT quote about unique beliefs could not be explicitly applied to the situation in 1919.

The amazing claim of being selected by Jesus, solely, demands amazing evidence to back up that claim.

I'm suggesting that a unique belief dating from that period that has stood the test of time would help indicate Jesus blessing on this group. Otherwise on what basis did he chose the WTS?

(Leaving aside the argument that 'Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and chose us in 1919' is circular reasoning based on a strawman premise)

leavingwt

Passwordprotected, Tenyearsafter, LeavingWT, Mary, Besty, Wobble, IsaacAustin, QuietlyLeaving and even sometimes OUTLAW:

You all make me proud to be an apostate!

Why, thank you. I'll happily wear that label as a Badge of Honor.

BizzyBee

I forgot to answer this earlier:

R -
mary, bizzybee are you saying the people that work inside the magazine offices and the gb don't have to abide by the jehovah witness doctrines? so will gb be allowed to fornicate freely then etc that rules are only applied to rank and file?

Renaii: How the H E did you draw that inference from what was said? OTOH, you've given me a mental picture of a bunch of geriatric old fools on the 32nd floor hopped up on Viagra and being restrained from humping the water cooler.

Fornicate freely? Sorry but I have to plead no comment due to ROTFL.

leavingwt

I believe Earnest, unlike Reniaa, is more of "Devil's Advocate" for JW's basis for their theology rather than claiming he personally agrees with JW theology. Earnest has said in earlier posts he is more "Agnostic for Jehovah" than JW.

I like your questions Password and leavingwt, but I believe they would be better asked of true apologists like Reniaa (unfortunately, they are not likely to be addressed directly on a point by point basis)... I would still be interested in Earnest's thoughts on my points on believing truth in my comments above.

Perhaps you are right.

However, I'm unclear what would be the motivation for being an "Agnostic for Jehovah". I could similarly "defend" the Mormons, highlighting their many charitable and good attributes. I'm not beyond commending JWs (or any other group) for the GOOD things that they do. Hamas and the Taliban also have a charitable wing. There are tens of thousands of denominations in the U.S. alone. We could spend the rest of our lives detailing their good works.

In general, however, I believe that all people can be divided into two groups, regarding this one CENTRAL issue: Is it your belief that Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower/Christian Congregation of JW's are God's Organization?

If your answer is YES, then we have reached an impasse in our dialogue, as it would be my firm belief that Mind Control (primarily related to a fear of dying at Armageddon) will often prevent one from evaluating his or her beliefs using critical thinking skills. (I will concede that the apologist will reject my opinion, which is only natural.)

As author John Loftus says, "Threats of hell [however conceived] could hinder a clearheaded investigation".

But, there remains hope. As recovering alcoholics like to say, regarding how they avoid bars, "If you stay in the Barber Shop long enough -- you're going to get your hair cut." So, if you keep associating with "apostates", you might just find yourself agreeing with them, here and there on certain points. Doubt and uncertainty can build over time. Simply discussing the finer points of WT error/hate/discrepancies may form a body of knowledge in the mind of the believer that be called upon later, if an event occurs which triggers (even subconsciously) a desire to leave the organization. At that moment, the dots may connect and they may be truly free of the cult slavery. (It took Ray Franz YEARS to realize the organization was no longer an adequate/acceptable vehicle for his faith in Christ.)

I agree with Steve Hassan, when he says, "People will choose the TRUTH over a LIE in almost all cases, once they see things for what they are." The comfort of a lie wears awfully thin when the believer understands that it's a lie.

-LWT

OUTLAW

"mary, bizzybee are you saying the people that work inside the magazine offices and the gb don't have to abide by the jehovah witness doctrines? so will gb be allowed to fornicate freely then etc that rules are only applied to rank and file?" ................................I remember one of Dave`s Threads talking about one of the GB members Leo Greenlee..It was common knowledge in Bethel,Greenlee was an active Homosexual..One of the Bethelites confided to Dave..That Greenlee would bring young Bethelite males up to his apartment get them drunk..And.."Have sex with them in the Bum!!"..LOL!!

Laughing Mutley ...OUTLAW

shamus100

Yet another thread where Reinna just stops posting, because she's run out of material.

Earnest

OUTLAW : "The WBT$ claims to be the mediator between God and man"

Earnest : Why do you continue to repeat this when I have already addressed it ? If you really believe that then provide a reference where they do so."

OUTLAW : You addressed it..So what?..That does not make you right..LOL!!...The FDS who are a very important part of the WBT$,is the mediator for Jehovah`s Witness`s............And ..You Know it!!.....

There are two reasons that it is suggested the FDS is the mediator for Jehovah's Witnesses. The first is that it has been stated a number of times in WT literature that when the Bible uses the term 'mediator' it is used in a legal and contractual sense and when it refers to Jesus it only applies to the "anointed" as they are in a covenant with him. The second reason is that it has been stated a number of times in WT literature that it is essential to align oneself with Jehovah's Witnesses in order to benefit from God's provisions including being saved through Armageddon.

As I stated earlier in the thread, the first reason is a red herring because it is simply the term 'mediator', not the idea of a mediator, which is used in a legal sense to refer only to the "anointed". However, I will add this... up until the time this was first published almost everyone ended their public prayers "...in the name of our mediator, Jesus Christ" and almost overnight people stopped referring to Jesus as mediator. Whether this was the effect the GB wanted is open to debate but this is not what the articles were about, they were simply about how the expression was used in scripture. It seems obvious to me that this difference was lost on many Witnesses and so remains a cause of contention.

As far as the second reason is concerned, I gave the analogy of the foreigners (non-Jews) who went with the Israelites when they left Egypt and asked the questions : What do you think? Was it God or the nation of Israel that saved this mixed crowd that fled with the Israelites when they passed through the Red Sea? Was it God or the nation of Israel that provided them with manna and water in the Wilderness? Yet...would the Red Sea have been opened for them if they had not been with the Israelites? Would manna and water have been provided if they were not "aligned" with the Israelites?

I accept this begs the question as to whether such analogies can be applied to JWs. You may not accept that the term "spiritual Israel" applies to "the anointed" but JWs themselves do not believe the Watch Tower Society or any group within it are their saviours rather than God and Jesus Christ.

isaacaustin

Yet another thread where Reinna just stops posting, because she's run out of material.

Shamus, Reniaa is probably out in service today. Leave her alone. LOL

wobble

Earnest,Paul said "There is one mediator between God and men...Jesus"

"Insight on the Scriptures" Vol 2 page 362,last sub-heading says"While Jesus' mediatorship operates SOLELY toward those in the new covenant"

I move that these two statements are in direct opposition.

Love

Wobble

WANTED ! JW Apologist

Share this