NWT Revelation 5:10 Rule on the earth or over the earth?

by digderidoo 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • digderidoo
    digderidoo

    New World Translation and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."

    compared to New International Version

    10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they will reign on the earth."

    Seems to be another clear cut case where the NWT has been mistranslated to fit in with JW beliefs. Seems as if just about every other translation uses the word "on" too. The original Greek word "epi" can apparently be translated for on or over.

    Interestingly the Old J.W Interlinear (The EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT) published by the WTBTS and used for over 100 years as their teaching Interlinear show Rev. 5:10 as "on" and not "over". This was obviously being used prior to 1914 to show that Jesus' rule would be "on" the earth. With their failed predictions and new meaning of an invisible presence, comes the new interlinear.

    Surprise, surprise, the new Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT) translates the word "epi" as over.

    So it all fits. Unbelievable! It is only recently i have been discovering mistranslations in the NWT and find it fascinating.

    Paul

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    I'd hate to be a naysayer, but I believe that the NWT is taking epi + gen. NP as a genitive of subordination, which is technically valid. You can find this usage in a number of texts where epi is used to indicate authority and power over another party: "God who is over all (epi pantón) blessed forever" (Romans 9:5), "One God and Father of all, who is over all (epi pantón), and through all, and in you all" (Ephesians 4:6), "I will give him authority over the nations (epi tón ethnón)" (Revelation 2:26), etc. Since the verb basileuousin "we shall be reigning" is specifically concerned with authority over others, I would say that the NWT rendering is probably as valid as the alternative. Another example with this verb can be found in Luke 19:14: "We will not have this man to reign over us (basileusai eph' hémas)".

  • oompa
    oompa

    diggerdoo...she sounds smart...and her avatar is hot!...so she must be right.....lol...plus she is usually RIGHT!................oompa

  • Sarah Smiles
    Sarah Smiles

    There is another song that the great crowd is singing in heaven but the NWT changed it! the in heaven part or maybe the King James was wrong!

    I see what you mean about over or on! good point.

    Who are them?

    I had an elder telling me that Jesus Christ appointed him to act as an elder to rule as judge during one of my elders meetings. Later, I asked that elder's daughter what the meaning of that scripture and she said she did not know!

    I hope you find another song in Revelations. I do like the songs and prayers.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Leolaia,

    Sure it can be translated either way. But even is you translate "over" instead of "on," this does not mean that this rule takes place from someplace else. You gave examples where "over" still involved the same place. To properly understand what was meant then we need to also know where all this is scheduled to take place. And there is adequate information in scripture to show that Christ will return once again to rule over this earth with His apostles and disciples. The word heaven does not cancel this out. The New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. It does not stay there to function in our behalf. The tent of God is with mankind and the meek that will inhabit it. That is our hope.

    Joseph

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Actually, you make a good point JosephMalik, the word "over" is ambiguous in English. Just like the word "with", which can be used for both instrumental ("I cut the bread with a knife") and accompaniment senses ("I went to the park with John"). The same goes with "over". In English, "over" can indicate a spatial location ("The astronauts were orbiting over Africa when they received the transmission"), as well as a non-spatial relation of power ("The king ruled over his subjects"). Epi is not used to indicate a spatial relation of "over" (its spatial relation is "on" or "upon"), the proper word for that is huper. So if the Society uses the probable genitive of subordination in Revelation 5:10 as indicating a location of the anointed rulers over the earth, i.e. in heaven, then that would be a misinterpretation of the given text (even if the NWT rendering is permissible).

    And there we may discover the value of this thread....for indeed this misinterpretation can be found in Watchtower publications:

    *** w06 8/15 pp. 6-7 "As in Heaven, Also Upon Earth" ***

    This salvation with two destinies, heavenly and earthly, is mentioned in a vision seen by the apostle John. He saw kings on heavenly thrones who had been chosen from among Christ’s faithful disciples. The Bible specifically states regarding these associates of Christ that "they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:9, 10) Note the dual aspect in the accomplishing of God’s purpose -- a restored earth under the direction of a heavenly Kingdom made up of Jesus Christ and his joint heirs.

    *** w78 3/1 p. 21 par. 1 “The Kingdom of Our Lord and of His Christ” Takes Over ***

    Then they will no longer be earthly subjects of a spiritual kingdom of Christ, but they will be kings with him in heaven. This prospect agrees with the words of Revelation 5:9, 10, addressed to Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God: "With your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."

    The goofy Revelation Climax book oddly enough does not make this mistake. What is really odd though is a QFR that explains why the NWT is correct for rendering the epi as a genitive of subordination, bringing a knowledge of Greek grammar to bear, but then it goes right ahead and makes a doctrinal interpretation that ignores the genitive of subordination and takes the epi incorrectly as spatial:
    *** w74 12/1 pp. 735-736 Questions From Readers ***

    The basic significance of the Greek word epi is "on" or "upon," but that is not the only meaning. When used in connection with power, authority or dignity, epi can also mean "over."

    Numerous Biblical examples illustrate this. God is referred to in the Bible as being "over [epi] all." (Rom. 9:5; Eph. 4:6) The Ethiopian eunuch was "over [epi] all" the treasure of Candace. (Acts 8:27) The "faithful and discreet slave" is appointed by his master "over [epi] his domestics." (Matt. 24:45) Seven certified men were to be selected by the Jerusalem congregation that the apostles might "appoint them over [epi] this necessary business" of food distribution. (Acts 6:3) Clearly, in all these instances the Greek word epi followed by the genitive case cannot be translated "on" or "upon," but, in harmony with the context, is properly rendered "over." —Note also Revelation 9:11; 11:6.

    Likewise, at Revelation 5:10, those entrusted with rulership are in charge of the earth, exercising dominion over those dwelling on it. The subject matter of this text is rulership, and logically, therefore, the Greek word epi calls attention, not to the location of the rulers, but to the area over which they exercise authority. That they rule "over the earth" agrees with the rest of the Scriptures, which reveal that God’s kingdom by Christ is heavenly and that Jesus’ associate rulers are promised heavenly life.

    Isn't that amazing? They say that "over" does not indicate "the location of the rulers", and yet for doctrinal reasons they still insist (despite their description of the genitive of subordination) that epi is still spatial, and thus indicates "the area over which they exercise authority," allowing them to sneak by with letting that define the spatial location of the rulers "in heaven". Just look at the other examples of epi that they cited -- the sense is properly "that over which one exercises authority" or "those over which one exercises authority", not "the area over which one exercises authority". Usually, when a king rules over his kingdom, he is not himself located outside the kingdom or literally over it. He is in it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the rulers in our present text are in the domain of the earth (although a spatial reading of epi certainly means this -- remember the preposition is ambiguous in this context), it just means that the word "over" is not used spatially in this context if it is to be read as a genitive of subordination.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Joseph has said it well, as has Leolia

    Heaven refers to the source of authority. The WT uses over to try to place their upper class of their two class system in physical Heavens above while ruling the other sheep/great crowd on earth. Either translation is no issue.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Leolaia,

    Thanks. Agreement is always nicer and enlightenment is best. It all means that we should not only think but research words more carefully. It is the really simple words where major error has its roots. I learned about a few such words fairly recently and had to correct some of my documents on important texts usually taken for granted. That is the way it goes. Never too old to learn.

    Joseph

  • Mary
    Mary
    the Greek word epi is "on" or "upon,"

    OK, Leolaia has provided examples of where the NWT has translated epi as "upon". Are there any examples of where they use epi as "on" in the NWT? Since they used the Greek word ka toikon as "in private homes" in Acts 2:46 and the exact same phrase as "house to house" in Acts 5:42, I'm just wondering if they've done this with yet another word that might prove damaging to this doctrine.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Mary,

    You are asking to look up around 790 verses where epi appears. And in such verses it is translated as "in", "time," "to," "upon," "by," "unto," "as," "at," "before," and who knows what else and that is just in the first 10 chapters of Matthew in the AV. There is no question that such examples exist.

    Joseph

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