News from Bethel Heavy

by cinnamon1642 224 Replies latest jw friends

  • Not Feeling It
    Not Feeling It
    and I also guess instead of Borg it will be Porg, or Worg if in Walkill!

    Hi, ISOT.

    This seems to be a common misconception (or at best a secondary meaning). I'm sure the original folks who associated Borg with JWs meant it not as Brooklyn Organization but rather as a reference to Star Trek: Next Generation. The Borg on STNG are a really good metaphor for the WTS. They only think as a collective about the collective. All contrary cultures will be assimilated or destroyed. "Resistance is futile" is thier mantra.

    Sound familiar? ;-)

    I can only imagine someone thought it a clever coincidence that it could also be an abbreviation for Brookyln Organization.

    I'm REALLY not a Trekkie! I do watch the movies. BTW: The new one coming out soon looks pretty cool.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek) for more boring Borg reading.

    -- Not Borg'ing It

  • Jringe01
    Jringe01
    Jringe01 said: Actually Mary in this one case they are not idiots but in this case maybe you are a bit of one...Just because they believe the end is around the corner doesn't mean they should stop all planning and activity and wait for it to happen. They still need to print stuff and keep an organization running...I mean come on!

    My point is that this is a perfect example of them having a double standard: one for them, one for the rank and file. Jehovah's Witnesses have for decades, been told not to do every day normal things, such as getting a decent education, buying a home, having children or saving for retirement. This was all said because 'The End' was right around the corner and to make any kind of long term plans was viewed as being 'spiritually weak' or 'lacking in faith', no matter how much you might believe this was 'the Truth'. That's because such long term plans were viewed as "being worldly" and not devoting time and energy to "The kingdom" Yet at the same time they're telling others not to make long term plans in this 'System of Things', they're doing exactly that. They are not making long term plans that would take time and energy away from the work they are doing whereas, in their eyes, getting a "worldly" education or a high paying job would do that. Also in their eyes it would "expose you to worldly influence" and perhaps make you doubt your faith (with good reason; as we all know they have a lot of holes/grey areas in their faith that a higher education could expose). If they truly believed that the Great Tribulation was imminent, they most certainly would not be making plans like this, plain and simple, regardless of how practical a move it is. Yes they would because "imminent" is a very vague word. Just because a hurricane or a major snowstorm that'll dump 25 inches is imminent it doesn't mean that your life comes to a screeching halt. They are not rushing (in their supposed quest to make $$$) to publish the next edition of Vogue or the latest Harry Potter books. If they were then you'd have a case because that would be a double standard. However they are doing what they are asking of their members...devoting their time and resources to their work. They they are setting the example they want their membership to follow...it doesn't matter what we think of that example or the work, that is what they are doing.

    imminent

    Adjective likely to happen soon [Latin imminere to project over] imminence n

    Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

    imminent

    adjective near , coming, close, approaching, threatening, gathering, on the way, in the air, forthcoming, looming, menacing, brewing, impending, at hand, upcoming, on the cards, on the horizon, in the pipeline, nigh (archaic) in the offing, fast-approaching, just round the corner, near-at-hand << OPPOSITE remote

    Collins Essential Thesaurus 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2005, 2006

    And by the way, please do not tell me that I'm 'acting like an idiot' by what I said Jringe01 I said "...a bit of one. I can't see how you stopped to think before you rushed to condem them as "idiots" and say they have "...a double standard"; I don't appreciate your smart assed comment, nor was it warranted. I don't think your making this into an issue is warranted and as for my "smart ass comment"...if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen... My observation about the whole scenario was a rational one which shows their hypocrisy plain and simple. If it was that plain and simple luv I wouldn't have commented on it.

  • metatron
    metatron

    It is hypocrisy to assert that the End is Soon and then make speculative plans otherwise. The speculation contradicts the firm assertion, period. 2020 is not soon. If anyone thinks otherwise, then tell the next Witless "Well, maybe 12 or 20 years" when they plead that the end is nigh - and see what reaction you get.

    As for the rest, Are we witnessing the moment when the Society gives up on local congregations in manner similar to the Soviet Empire leaving Eastern Europe?

    I think that such a move is inevitable. These men, as "guided by God", can't afford the costs of such a thinly stretched empire.

    metatron

  • sir82
    sir82

    Well, they certainly have resolved their cash flow problem with this news. A 12-year plan of selling off real estate in Brooklyn with skyline views of Manhattan for literally billions of dollars will fund them for probably the next 30 or 40 years, if they invest wisely.

    A question to the author of this post: Was this information from the "Bethel heavy" given to you for the express purpose of getting the information out there, or is he completely unaware that this is being spread worldwide? I just wonder if this source is "sympathetic to our cause", or not.

    If he is, it would be most interesting to pose questions back to him.

    Question no. 1: It seems that most COs are unaware of this proposed change as of now. How and when will this be broken to them?

    It would be most interesting to see how COs conduct their visits in the interim between their being apprised of this situation and the general JW population knowing it.

    Hey, any COs reading this: As we have stated before - protect yourself! Get thee to a Kinko's post-haste and copy everything you've got!

    And then post it here!

  • Mary
    Mary

    My point is that this is a perfect example of them having a double standard: one for them, one for the rank and file. Jehovah's Witnesses have for decades, been told not to do every day normal things, such as getting a decent education, buying a home, having children or saving for retirement. This was all said because 'The End' was right around the corner and to make any kind of long term plans was viewed as being 'spiritually weak' or 'lacking in faith', no matter how much you might believe this was 'the Truth'. That's because such long term plans were viewed as "being worldly" and not devoting time and energy to "The kingdom" Yet at the same time they're telling others not to make long term plans in this 'System of Things', they're doing exactly that. They are not making long term plans that would take time and energy away from the work they are doing whereas, in their eyes, getting a "worldly" education or a high paying job would do that.

    Don't give me that crap. It makes no difference what your "long term plans" are in this "System of Things", if you're making them, then that obviously means you don't believe The End is near, plain and simple. It's a double standard and extremely hypocritical whether you think it is or not.

    If they truly believed that the Great Tribulation was imminent, they most certainly would not be making plans like this, plain and simple, regardless of how practical a move it is. Yes they would because "imminent" is a very vague word . Just because a hurricane or a major snowstorm that'll dump 25 inches is imminent it doesn't mean that your life comes to a screeching halt.

    Yet that is exactly what they're 'encouraging' the rank and file to do: put off everyday normal activities until the 'New System of Things'. And just in case you didn't know it: a hurricane or major snowstorm does not translate into The End of the World, so your comparison of the two situations is totally irrelevant.

    They are not rushing (in their supposed quest to make $$$) to publish the next edition of Vogue or the latest Harry Potter books. If they were then you'd have a case because that would be a double standard.

    WTF are you talking about?? The WTB&TS's main purpose is to churn out new literature. That's what they live for. The R&F buy them and place them, give the money back to the WTS and so the cycle begins again.

    However they are doing what they are asking of their members...devoting their time and resources to their work. They they are setting the example they want their membership to follow...it doesn't matter what we think of that example or the work, that is what they are doing.

    Bullshit. This is a multi-billion dollar corporation that gets all their work done for free by volunteers that they then kick to the curb after 20 or 30 years of service. They're making long-term plans to sell off buildings that is going to net them hundreds of millions of dollars but in the meantime, the average Witness is not supposed to make any individual long term plans. And you don't see this as a double standard? Riiiiiight.

    And by the way, please do not tell me that I'm 'acting like an idiot' by what I said Jringe01 I said "...a bit of one . I can't see how you stopped to think before you rushed to condem them as "idiots" and say they have "...a double standard"

    Oh I don't know. Must be speculation and wild conjecture on my part.

    I don't appreciate your smart assed comment, nor was it warranted. I don't think your making this into an issue is warranted and as for my "smart ass comment"...if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen...

    Don't give me that crap. Your comment was without any basis whatsoever and I don't see anyone else on here defending what you said.

    My observation about the whole scenario was a rational one which shows their hypocrisy plain and simple. If it was that plain and simple luv I wouldn't have commented on it.

    Well since you're the only one who apparently can't see their double standard and hypocritial nature in all of this, perhaps it just wasn't quite simple enough. Maybe next time I'll use pictures so you can understand it better.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    jringe

    It appears you suffer from myopia. If you do not know what that means it is defined as:

    1.Ophthalmology . a condition of the eye in which parallel rays are focused in front of the retina, objects being seen distinctly only when near to the eye; nearsightedness ( opposed to hyperopia ).
    2.lack of foresight or discernment; obtuseness.
    3.narrow-mindedness; intolerance.

    It seems to be a case of WT myopia which has clouded your minds eye and given you nearsighted, obtuseness and narrow-mindedness.

    Perhaps you need to get out of the kitchen.

  • willyloman
    willyloman
    Are we witnessing the moment when the Society gives up on local congregations in manner similar to the Soviet Empire leaving Eastern Europe?

    Metatron: Can you expand on this very interesting thought?

  • Jringe01
    Jringe01

    My point is that this is a perfect example of them having a double standard: one for them, one for the rank and file. Jehovah's Witnesses have for decades, been told not to do every day normal things, such as getting a decent education, buying a home, having children or saving for retirement. This was all said because 'The End' was right around the corner and to make any kind of long term plans was viewed as being 'spiritually weak' or 'lacking in faith', no matter how much you might believe this was 'the Truth'.That's because such long term plans were viewed as "being worldly" and not devoting time and energy to "The kingdom"Yet at the same time they're telling others not to make long term plans in this 'System of Things', they're doing exactly that. They are not making long term plans that would take time and energy away from the work they are doing whereas, in their eyes, getting a "worldly" education or a high paying job would do that.

    Don't give me that crap. It makes no difference what your "long term plans" are in this "System of Things", if you're making them, then that obviously means you don't believe The End is near, plain and simple. It's a double standard and extremely hypocritical whether you think it is or not.

    That obviously means they don't believe the end is near? Mary you don't really know what they believe, none of us do. That's just speculation and it's not true...see below

    If they truly believed that the Great Tribulation was imminent, they most certainly would not be making plans like this, plain and simple, regardless of how practical a move it is. Yes they would because "imminent" is a very vague word . Just because a hurricane or a major snowstorm that'll dump 25 inches is imminent it doesn't mean that your life comes to a screeching halt.

    Yet that is exactly what they're 'encouraging' the rank and file to do: put off everyday normal activities until the 'New System of Things'. And just in case you didn't know it: a hurricane or major snowstorm does not translate into The End of the World, so your comparison of the two situations is totally irrelevant.

    They do not tell the rank and file to put off everyday normal activities Mary because "higher education, better paying jobs, buying a house, getting married and saving for retirement are NOT normal everyday activities for millions upon millions of people around the world, including myself...rather they are goals that we can aspire to.

    Mary...your death is imminent, so is mine.

    It's "around the corner" it could happen any day, any time, anywhere. Do we stop living our lives because of this? After all you don't "know the day or the hour" so why not just sit at home with our thumbs up our asses not going anywhere, doing anything or talking to anyone? The reason is this: You don't stop living because a disaster is imminent. You don't put your life on hold until you absolutely have to.

    You cannot run a publishing business and NOT make plans...please note that they did not announce plans for 40 years down the road, only for 7. It takes time to get these things done, you can't just throw up a building overnight. Even quickbuilds take several weeks of prep work before the big show. It's not like they are planning for the next half century of growth...they are planning a short term project that will see them relocate a lot of work to Patterson.

    This in no way contradicts their belief that the end is imminent...because they don't know the day or the hour so it would be folly on their part if they now were to sit on their thumbs and do nothing.

    They are not rushing (in their supposed quest to make $$$) to publish the next edition of Vogue or the latest Harry Potter books. If they were then you'd have a case because that would be a double standard.

    WTF are you talking about?? The WTB&TS's main purpose is to churn out new literature. That's what they live for. The R&F buy them and place them, give the money back to the WTS and so the cycle begins again.

    Yeah it's what they live for...but they don't publish worldly stuff. if they did then you'd have an airtight case. If the WTS was urging it's members to devote all their time and resources to the preaching and then turning around and accepting worldly publishing contracts then that would be the double standard...that's WTF I'm talking about.

    I don't appreciate your smart assed comment, nor was it warranted. I don't think your making this into an issue is warranted and as for my "smart ass comment"...if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen...

    Don't give me that crap. Your comment was without any basis whatsoever and I don't see anyone else on here defending what you said.

    I really don't care if anyone else does defend it...it's a free country. Besides I've read comments of yours on other threads that were smart ass so why whine about it. Yeah it was smart ass...so what? It's not like you haven't made a smart ass comment before. Little like the pot calling the kettle black I think.

  • metatron
    metatron

    The Watchtower Society has been remarkable for its growth despite widespread opposition, however, that may be coming to an end.

    Like the Soviets, they built up great looking statistics about growth - while the cost of empire has increased. The Communists had to deal with vast numbers of passive aggresive people who became dependent and drained their empire, while competition from opposing systems made this expense worse. They went broke and many of their vaunted accomplishments were exposed as hype.

    I have wondered if the lack of contributions will make the Governing Body throw up their hands and simply let the congregations go on their own. Why hold on to them if it's a money losing proposition? When do they say 'enough'! How can they afford legal battles everywhere on earth? When Witnesses close their wallets?

    The productivity of Witnesses is atrocious - no different from their Soviet brethern.

    Something's got to give. This C.O. thing starts to look like tearing down the Berlin Wall.

    metatron

  • Mary
    Mary

    That obviously means they don't believe the end is near? Mary you don't really know what they believe, none of us do. That's just speculation and it's not true...see below

    It truly boggles the mind that you could write something this stupid. So, none of us knows what the WTS really believes eh? I guess the 120+ years of them predicting imminent catastrophe never really happened---it was all just "speculation" on our part. Ya. Okay.

    They do not tell the rank and file to put off everyday normal activities Mary because "higher education, better paying jobs, buying a house, getting married and saving for retirement are NOT normal everyday activities for millions upon millions of people around the world, including myself...rather they are goals that we can aspire to

    November 15, 2004 WT p. 23 par. 15: "Let us never urge fellow Christians who are pioneers, missionaries, traveling overseers, or members of the Bethel family to discontinue their full-time service simply to return to a so-called normal life."
    August 1, 1978 WT p. 18 par. 11: "Because this system’s end has not yet arrived, some who are serving Jehovah may be tempted to slack off in their desire to make sacrifices for him. They may think that his new order is too far off in the distant future to regard this present situation with urgency. They may feel that they should be more concerned with leading a so-called "normal" life."
    October 1, 1999 WT pp. 12-13 par. 12: "...How dangerous to think that we can take it easy, living so-called normal lives, waiting to see how things might develop!"
    July 15, 1989 WT p. 13 par. 11: "....since we have been enlightened about the imminence of the world’s end, the only balanced way of life for us is to focus our attention on doing God’s will and proclaiming the good news, even though that may involve what many view as sacrificing a so-called normal way of life..."

    So tell me jringe-----what would this "so-called normal" way of life be talking about? Before you come up with another ridiculous explanation, I called the Writing Department this afternoon and asked for clarification on this point. I asked what were some of the sacrifices it's talking about that make up a 'so-called normal' life that many Witnesses have made. Did it include marriage and children? Yes. Did it include buying a home? Yes. Did it include trying to further your career and get a better paying job? Yes.

    So there you have it from the horse's mouth. And if you don't believe me, perhaps YOU should phone and ask the same question. Your theory has no foundation and isn't even backed by the very group of people you're attempting to defend.

    You cannot run a publishing business and NOT make plans...please note that they did not announce plans for 40 years down the road, only for 7.

    No, the original post says that they plan on selling the buildings off as late as 2020. That's 13 years away. I wouldn't exactly call that short-term plans.

    It takes time to get these things done, you can't just throw up a building overnight. Even quickbuilds take several weeks of prep work before the big show. It's not like they are planning for the next half century of growth...they are planning a short term project that will see them relocate a lot of work to Patterson.

    Sorry, but that doesn't wash. They're planning 13 years ahead. What do you think would happen to the average Witness if they started telling others that they're sending their kids to university because they don't believe that Armageddon will be here in 13 years? They'd get their asses hauled in the backroom for a "little chat" about how 'imminent' The End is.

    This in no way contradicts their belief that the end is imminent...because they don't know the day or the hour so it would be folly on their part if they now were to sit on their thumbs and do nothing.

    Yet another brainiac comment: Making long term plans doesn't mean that you don't believe Armageddon is "right around the corner".

    Yeah it's what they live for...but they don't publish worldly stuff. if they did then you'd have an airtight case. If the WTS was urging it's members to devote all their time and resources to the preaching and then turning around and accepting worldly publishing contracts then that would be the double standard...that's WTF I'm talking about.

    Good god.....This doesn't even make any sense and is completely irrelevant to the argument. It makes absolutely no difference what they're publishing. The point is: THEY'RE MAKING LONG TERM PLANS. Which part of that don't you understand?

    I really don't care if anyone else does defend it...it's a free country. Besides I've read comments of yours on other threads that were smart ass so why whine about it. Yeah it was smart ass...so what? It's not like you haven't made a smart ass comment before. Little like the pot calling the kettle black I think.

    So there you go folks. jringe01 intent was to make a smart assed comment. It apparently makes no difference whatsoever to him that his argument has no basis and he looks like an idiot by claiming that the WTS does not have double standards when it comes to when The End is coming.

    jringe, I can't imagine what is going on inside your head---maybe you just like to argue or maybe you forgot to take your meds, but I would strongly recommend that you read Crisis of Conscience pg 13 - 15 that shows the 'double standard' mentality they had over 70 years ago. On one hand, Freddie Franz was agitated at the R&F saying that the preaching work was 'just about finished' when he said otherwise, yet at the same time the September 15, 1941 WT specifically mentions "the remaining months before Armageddon."

    I agree with isaacaustin and sf: there's clearly something wrong with you if you can't see the double standard here.

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