JW Conscientious Objectors Service or Service

by Wordly Andre 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Thanks Garybuss - I also kind of figured that might be what actually happened. I always suspected that Russell's big pushbutton was soul/hellfire and the adventist style chronology.

    I do see one thing: for sure it was Rutherford who decided to make the Witnesses known for outlandish behavior, and then scream persecution whenever tthe natural push-back happened. Even the name, if you think about it:

    Bible Students - a name picked to show that this is a group of simple people who just want to study the bible.

    Jehovah's Witnesses - sort of a legalistic, war-god is right, and we are his legal supporters kind of name.

    Andre - I know for sure that back in the Nam era, if you got "sentenced" to C.O. work in a hospital, it was OK to do that instead of going to prison. So that gives the lie for sure to the idea that this is forbidden for true christians, like they tried to say. And I specifically know of people who did just that.

    Can you imagine this (with the same logic) - if you were "sentenced" to salute the flag, well - you could do so then, just to avoid going to prison? Blood transfusion? "Sentence" me to take one?

    Also, I think they now say circa 1990s that there is no penalty to taking volunteer C.O. work instead of the draft, thus voiding their earlier edicts.

  • Terry
    Terry

    In my Kingdom Hall, only one other brother (draft age) went to prison other than me.

    There was a lot of chicanery in who went and who didn't.

    The choices were varied.

    The Watchtower Society wanted all young brothers to be Full-Time Pioneers. They would go to bat for you with the Selective Service to obtain a 4D (Ministerial) deferment.

    They refused to help you at all otherwise. Clearly this was a pressure point.

    The official stance of the Watchtower was shaded this way and that depending on who was asking.

    Rutherford Era understanding of Romans 13:1-3 was twisted beyond all recognition (the Superior Authorities were identified as Jehovah God and Jesus Christ!) The exact opposite of the context and meaning of the setting in Romans!!

    This (deliberate mis-)understanding ended (if memory serves) around 1960. It wasn't widely known to have changed!

    When I turned 18 and registered for the draft I could not have escaped military service unless I was a Full-Time Pioneer according to the general information dispensed by my Congregation Overseer at that time. (Presiding Elder).

    When my notice came in the mail I had a window of opportunity to appeal a 1A (ready and fit for military service) classification by sending in the Selective Service form with a request for deferment. The reasons could be ticked off. I, not being a full-time minister, checked the "conscientious objector" box. This would be my view of myself and not necessarily the classification my local board (after a personal interview) would grant.

    I was called in for interview and questioned by all the members of the board in a rapid fire cross-examination.

    Afterward I received my I.O. (conscientious objector) status along with my draft card in the mail.

    By law, I had to carry it on my person at all time.

    Eventually, I was notified by mail I had to take a bus to Dallas Texas for an Armed Forces Military physical exam.

    I asked my Congregation Overseer what I should do.

    He and the Assistant Overseer took me into the library and closed the door. In hushed, confidential tones they gave me the lowdown.

    I could never tell any authority they had spoken to me or advised me in any way.

    I should go along with everything the asked me to do with one exception. I would NOT report for duty when assigned.

    What most active JW's don't know to this day is that my automatic assignment (because I was a conscientious objector) would be to work in a hospital. This was IN LIEU of Military Service as allowed by the law. Two years civilian duty INSTEAD OF Military service. All I had to do was report to Terrell State hospital on such and such date.

    When I ___failed___to report (as instructed by my Congregation Overseer) I would have broken the law--a Federal Law and be subject to the punishments under the Universal Military Training and Service Act.

    That penalty would be 5 years maximum sentence and possibly a $5 thousand dollar fine!

    As my overseer and his assistant explained: Jehovah's Witnesses cannot accept civilian duty because it takes us away from our preaching work AND we are considered IN the military. We would be working for THE WILD BEAST.

    This is where it gets really silly. (If it isn't already!)

    When hauled into court, the Judge can either sentence you to Civilian duty or federal prison (his call). IF THE JUDGE sentences you to civilian duty (working in a hospital) THEN you can comply and go along with the sentence!

    The reasoning is that you have NO CHOICE!

    This is ridiculous! OF COURSE YOU DO! You can refuse--can't you? Yes!

    But, that was the "reasoning" of the Watchtower through back channels on the Q.T.

    If you were sentenced to Prison, well, tough luck!

    Several brothers I knew who had money hired Hayden Covington (the alcoholic) who seemed to always win Supreme Court cases and NEVER WIN draft cases. He charged $10,000 to go to court with you and lose! Ironic!

    Anyway...

    I wasn't yet twenty one years old. In Texas, you aren't an adult until you are 21 years old. I was sentenced under the Youth Corrections Act.

    That meant instead of a maximum of 5 years in prison I could (and was!) sentenced to an INDETERMINATE sentence of up to 6 years!

    What did that mean?

    I was available for parole after 6 months---but--I could be kept in prison for the full 6 years if the parole hearings went against me!!

    Here is a sidebar on the situation.

    I was pretty nervous and even frightened about what was going to happen. I asked many brothers for advice. I was referred to a brother who had recently been parolled. He had served 5 years. I called him on the phone and asked him a lot of questions. HE REFUSED to co-operate with me and didn't tell me anything other than---"You'll find out when you get in there!"

    Asshole!

    When I got out---nobody was the least bit interested in my experiences. Nobody asked me questions about how it went. I was immediately cornered by my congregation overseer the day I got out (and attended the Kingdom Hall.) He handed me a Full Time pioneer form and told me "I know you'll want to do this." His son, you see, needed somebody to go out in service with.

    The entire experience was a big letdown spiritually.

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    This was my kinda guy....I still don't believe in war, or "worldly" conflicts.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Ironically the Witnesses never told me it was a United States General, an ex-Witness who went into the military, who rode a tank into Berlin and freed the Jehovah's Witnesses in the concentration camps.

    Without the ex-Witness who came to their aid, I wonder how well the Jehovah's Witness martyrs in the camps would have faired . . .

    I might be against war most days, but I still fail to see how pacifism would have stopped Hitler's forces from bombing London, kept Rommel's tanks out of Africa, or helped the children in Auschwitz. The Witness adults were there by choice, but the children weren't.

  • Tired of the Hypocrisy
    Tired of the Hypocrisy

    I think that getting baptized in order to avoid military service is a form of cowardice. I understand the concept of a consciencious objector (CO) very well. I had three uncles who went to war. Two in WWII and one in Korea. Two were CO. The one who fought went on to fight again in Korea and then did intelligence work during the Vietnam conflict. The other two served as cooks.

    I see nothing wrong with serving as a cook or a medic. For that matter, all logistics and rear echelon personnel are of high value and can serve in huge ways without having to fire a shot in anger.

    Biblically, there were soldiers who became Christians and continued to serve Rome. They were not written of as bad people nor as questionable association. This anti military crap is disgusting in my sight.

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I was really upset that my mothe got me involved with this wacky cult. But I was really thankful that I had a high draft number and didnt have to either go to jail or join the coast guard.

    I remember going down to selective service no one went with me or told me anything, I just new I wasnt supposed to go in the military or I could no longer go to the kingdumb hall.

  • Terry
    Terry
    I might be against war most days, but I still fail to see how pacifism would have stopped Hitler's forces from bombing London, kept Rommel's tanks out of Africa, or helped the children in Auschwitz. The Witness adults were there by choice, but the children weren't.

    You hit the nail squarely on the head.

    Pacifism sounds beautiful in principle. In everyday life it is a suspension of sanity for the sake of pseudo-morality.

    Survival of the fittest brought humanity to the top of the food chain.

    Further, when good men do nothing it is the natural consequence that evil men thrive, dominate and destroy.

    What is worse, ethically speaking, is that other men must step in and fill the gap for those who will not lift a finger to protect hearth and home, family and friend.

    Among Jehovah's Witnesses there is an added element which is worse still.

    JW's condemn with a superior attitude of self-righteousness the very people who fight and sometimes die to preserve the Jehovah's Witnesses; own freedom to sneer.

    Imagine a village in which those who will not work (on some trumped up principle) demand the right to live off the earnings and labor of those who do work. Further, imagine these welfare recipients taking the high ground and condemning those who bestow the charity upon them.

    I look back on my own time spent in prison and see it as a truly terrible waste of my youth. I produced nothing for anybody. In Terrell State hospital I could have helped my fellow man by actually doing something instead of imagining I was serving a higher cause.

    I'm deeply ashamed.

  • Wordly Andre
    Wordly Andre

    My dad missed the draft, I think it was because he was too old by that time, but his brothers (non-JW) joined up, I wonder what words were said between them when my dad joined the JW's, my parents joined the cult in the mid 70's so the daft was over by then but still I wonder how my uncles felt. I wish they were around for me to ask them.

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