Reference to 2 Maccabees in Hebrews 11?

by CatholicGuy 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • CatholicGuy
    CatholicGuy

    Hebrews chapter 11 is well-known for its description of the "heroes of faith." After speaking of the most notable figures from the Old Testament it says:

    "Women received their dead by resurrection; but other men were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection." (Hebrews 11:35)

    Who were these men who were tortured for their faith in hope of the resurrection?

    From 2 Maccabees 7:1-42:

    "It happened also that seven brothers and their mother were arrested and were being compelled by the king, under torture with whips and thongs, to partake of unlawful swine's flesh. One of them, acting as their spokesman, said: `What do you intend to ask and learn from us? For we are ready to die rather than trangress the laws of our ancestors.' The king fell into a rage, and gave orders to have pans and caldrons heated. These were heated immediately, and he commanded that the tongue of their spokesman be cut out and that they scalp him and cut off his hands and feet, while the rest of the brothers and the mother looked on."

    The account continues with the details of the torture and death of the seven brothers. The full account can be found at:

    http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/2maccabees/2maccabees7.htm

    Noteworthy is their stated hope in the resurrection:

    "And when he [the second brother] was at his last breath, he said: `You accursed wretch, you dismiss us from this present life, but the King of the universe will raise us up to an everlasting renewal of life, because we have died for his laws.'" (verse 9)

    The third brother: "I got these from Heaven, and because of his laws I disdain them, and from him I hope to get them back again." (verse 11)

    The fourth: "One cannot but choose to die at the hands of mortals and to cherish the hope God gives of being raised again by him. But for you there will be no resurrection to life!" (verse 14)

    Their mother said: "I do not know how you came into being in my womb. It was not I who gave you life and breath, nor I who set in order the elements within each of you. Therefore the Creator of the world, who shaped the beginning of humankind and devised the origin of all things, will in his mercy give life and breath to you again, since you now forget yourselves for the sake of his laws." (verses 22-23)

    This story of the martyrdom of the seven brothers in 2 Maccabees is the account the writer of Hebrews apparently has in mind when he refers to "other men were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection." It's not referenced in the JW Reference Bible as a cross reference (and most likely not in most Protestant Bibles--though it is referenced in Catholic and Orthodox Study Bibles) because the JWs do not accept the Deuterocanonical books (those books which were accepted as part of the canon of the Old Testament after the Hebrew writings were originally accepted as part of the canon.)

    For the view of the early Christians on the Deuterocanonicals:

    http://www.catholic.com/answers/tracts/_otcanon.htm

    For more on the subject of the Deuterocanonicals/"Apocrypha":

    http://ic.net/~erasmus/ERASMUS3.HTM
    (see section entitled "Canon of the Bible and the `Apocrypha')
    Also see:
    http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deuteros.htm
    http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/1.2/marapril_story2.html
    http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deutero3.htm
    http://department.monm.edu/classics/Speel_Festschrift/sundbergJr.htm

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    hi CatholicGuy,

    2 Maccabees 7 was the reading in mass today.

    willy think: thread killer

  • CatholicGuy
    CatholicGuy

    Hearing the reading reminded me of this info...I guess I kinda figured a few Catholics would notice the connection :)

    CatholicGuy

  • Bang
    Bang

    Isn't it a comforting feeling of unity that it was the same reading all over the world.

    Bang

  • Julie
    Julie

    Hi Catholic Guy,

    You won't find many non-Catholics into that book, eh? With all that "pray for the dead" stuff and all. I remember thinking how obvious it was when that book didn't make the cut when the Protestants were busy doing all that editing. I am sure one of them will come along and "correct" you/your post eventually.

    Funny stuff.

    Take care,
    Julie

  • CatholicGuy
    CatholicGuy

    For Bang,

    Strictly speaking the readings for Mass were all the same in the Roman Rite (which is the largest part of the Catholic Church) throughout the world. The readings are different in the other Rites--as for example the Byzantine Rite to which I belong. Armenian Catholics have their own lectionary--as do the Coptic Catholics, etc., etc.

    But this further disproves the notion that the Deuterocanonicals are one of those "Catholic inventions" added by Rome. In the history of Christianity there are several Apostolic Churches which separated from union with Rome over the centuries. The Assyrian Church, for example, separated from union with Rome back in the 400's. The Coptic Church later the same century. And there are a few others. From the Catholic perspective these all have retained Apostolic Succession. There are groups from these liturgical traditions which have returned to unity with Rome (various Eastern Catholic Churches). The larger part of these traditions are still separated from Rome, however. The point is, however, that all these ancient Churches have a much larger Bible than the Protestant edition. They all agree with the Catholic Church on a larger canon for the Old Testament. (In fact, some allow 2 more books of the Maccabees in the history section of the OT!) There is no ancient Christian Church which agrees with the Protestant editing of the Bible canon.

    CatholicGuy

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    well, the NWT couldnt really have a cross-reference here since theres nothing to cross-reference to. however, the WT has frequently quoted maccabees favourably, considering it to be reliable but uninspired. also, it has been the position that inspired bible writers probably culled from non-inspired traditions or reference works, validating the information by including it in the inspired canon.

    mox

  • CatholicGuy
    CatholicGuy

    Maybe someday we'll see a NWT of the Apocrypha

    The Watch Tower Society's position is one they inherited from the Protestant Reformers. For way over a thousand years Christians relied on a larger canon of Scripture than what is found in the NWT or many Protestant versions.

    CatholicGuy

  • FideiDefensor
    FideiDefensor

    Jude 14,15 seems to be a direct quote from 1 Enoch. Would this suggest 1 Enoch should have been included into the canon?

    Something else that protestants and Jw's should find interesting is that the first list of New Testament books as we have them today was in 367 by that great Church Father, Athanasius. I believe he also had something to do with some council at Nicea in 325. :)

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    I love this topic. It's one of my favorites when bible-thumpers try to tell me how pagan I am since I'm Catholic.

    The Society's book, "All Scripture Is Inspired By God" has a table in it showing the books of the Bible. There they make the claim that God gave us which books belong in the bible, etc. etc. But they fail to mention what "organization" God used to do this. And they also fail to mention why they accept this "organization's" authority when it comes to the New Testament but not the Old Testament.

    They also fail to mention in their charts that also included in these canons were the Deuterocanonicals -- even from the first century of Christianity, the Christians and Jesus himself used the Greek Septuagint which contained the Deuterocanonicals. Jesus obviously viewed the books as inspired since he didn't make any issue about them.

    Oh what a tangled web we weave...

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